JessN: Clemson wrap-up: How Bama recovers – or doesn’t – will determine much of program’s fu

imaloyalone

Super Moderator
Jan 9, 2005
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i'm almost 50...gotta get a new perspective.

quite frankly, losing the way we did made it easier to take.
I agree 100% with your last statement. The comments in this thread show there were many aspects in the game where we were soundly defeated. When we lose, I prefer it to be in such a way that motivation is gained from the experiences.

Throughout the offseason and next season, the pundits will be talking about CU like they talked about us this season. That will wear on them while creating hunger in us. 👍
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
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0
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i'm almost 50...gotta get a new perspective.

quite frankly, losing the way we did made it easier to take.
For every other loss, we've had a "if this happens" type of play that we can use as how the game could have been different. Last night was just complete embarrassment.

While it stings/sucks, it's better than the heartache a pick play with one second left gives you.
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
8,506
607
137
Allen, Texas
I'm sorry, I spent Christmas vacation getting caught up on all the Marvel movies I'd missed so it was fresh on the mind.
C'mon, man..............just because you are an engineer does not mean that you have to do all the nerdy stuff. I mean, look at me (not that anyone would want to, especially a woman), but I never did any of that nerdy sci-fi stuff. When Star Tek came out, the fist thing that came to mind was "Who thought up this crap?" And I turned out ok.

"No, you just turned out to be a bitter old nut."

Well, point well taken.

Enough levity....................back to finding blame.........................
 

JessN

Administrator & Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
6,269
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You blame Clemson's last loss to Alabama on lack of personnel, but I believe the same could be said for Alabama this year on defense. If we had a true pass rusher like we had in Tim Williams, this game could have been so much different. A player like that could have rattled Lawrence and caused poor throws as we saw the few times we got to him last night. Without that, we were picked apart on third and long all night giving up big play after big play.
In both the recap and my responses here, I've been pretty consistent in pointing out the loss of Miller, and the struggles Moses and Wilson had all year in the scheme. The problem with all three is there is/was no depth at those slots. And in regard to ILBs, there may be an issue with the effectiveness of the coaching, but I don't know that because I have a hard time gauging what Wilson's and Moses' ceilings happen to be.

A lot of people last night in my Twitter feed were clamoring for Anoma to play. The problem with that is Anoma is less polished than Courtney Upshaw was a true freshman. From about LSU onward during Upshaw's true freshman year, we could put him at rush end when the other team was down big and turn him loose. But he couldn't play on early downs because he wasn't disciplined enough in his run keys. Anoma had the same issues in 2018, times a hundred. The only real solution for Miller's absence was to play Jamey Mosley and work around his shortcomings rather than to reshuffle the entire LB corps to compensate, but Saban chose the latter, and it proved to be a mistake. In regards to Moses and Wilson, there really isn't/wasn't a Plan B. The most effective reserve inside LB on the team is Josh McMillon, and he's a run-support LB only. He is almost a carbon copy of Tana Patrick. With the way Clemson was chucking the ball around, it wouldn't have made much sense to get him in the game.

Having said that, Alabama has recruited a lot of LBs over the years and if you can't develop a single one of them to be ready to spell a struggling guy, you either are falling flat on the evaluation side, or you're not coaching them up. There isn't really a third option -- "Player X just didn't work out" falls heavily under evaluation. Exceptions noted for guys that turn to behavioral turds once they get to college but none of the guys in the ILB group have done that.

Self-scouting is always critical, not just in regards to opponents but to your own tendencies and organizations. And it's going to be more critical than ever for the players and coaches in the defensive front seven heading into 2019, because Alabama could wind up losing all its best players up there and returning guys that have struggled for a year or more. I've got an uneasy feeling next year will be even loopier than this year in regards to what the defense can and can't stop.
 

TiderinAZ

1st Team
Sep 20, 2015
593
45
47
Carefree, AZ
I also wonder about the cumulative effect of extra games due to making it to the cfp title every year. That’s a conference championship game, a semifinal game and a national championship game. I know we haven’t played in the conference game every year, but that’s a lot of tough, physical games, that some opponents don’t have to play.

I’ve heard a similar about nba teams i.e. warriors, who start to look worn out because they have played so many games in consecutive years.


Two things were on display tonight - and they both resulted in UA looking totally gassed defensively.

The first is player conditioning. Coaches say it’s harder for the bigs to get back into game shape after the month layoff. Last week, our front 7 got after it against OU... same last year in the first round vs. Clemson. Our guys were taxed greatly last week and the turnaround didn’t allow them time to recover. If Clemson plays OU last week, they look differently tonight on defense IMO.

The second is the meat grinder of our SEC schedule. We played twice as many hard games as Clemson this season - and it took a toll on us. Again, look at last season as an indicator. We had an easier schedule than this year - and we were fresh against CU and did well defensively against UGA (who played an extra game and had to play OU). IMO, It’s better to go into the CFP having been tested in 2-3 games than to have played 5-6 heavyweights - and if you can skip the conference title game, all the better.

With these two factors, it comes down to the luck of the draw. How strong is your conference and who do you draw in the CFP?
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,347
4,419
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51
In both the recap and my responses here, I've been pretty consistent in pointing out the loss of Miller, and the struggles Moses and Wilson had all year in the scheme. The problem with all three is there is/was no depth at those slots. And in regard to ILBs, there may be an issue with the effectiveness of the coaching, but I don't know that because I have a hard time gauging what Wilson's and Moses' ceilings happen to be.

A lot of people last night in my Twitter feed were clamoring for Anoma to play. The problem with that is Anoma is less polished than Courtney Upshaw was a true freshman. From about LSU onward during Upshaw's true freshman year, we could put him at rush end when the other team was down big and turn him loose. But he couldn't play on early downs because he wasn't disciplined enough in his run keys. Anoma had the same issues in 2018, times a hundred. The only real solution for Miller's absence was to play Jamey Mosley and work around his shortcomings rather than to reshuffle the entire LB corps to compensate, but Saban chose the latter, and it proved to be a mistake. In regards to Moses and Wilson, there really isn't/wasn't a Plan B. The most effective reserve inside LB on the team is Josh McMillon, and he's a run-support LB only. He is almost a carbon copy of Tana Patrick. With the way Clemson was chucking the ball around, it wouldn't have made much sense to get him in the game.

Having said that, Alabama has recruited a lot of LBs over the years and if you can't develop a single one of them to be ready to spell a struggling guy, you either are falling flat on the evaluation side, or you're not coaching them up. There isn't really a third option -- "Player X just didn't work out" falls heavily under evaluation. Exceptions noted for guys that turn to behavioral turds once they get to college but none of the guys in the ILB group have done that.

Self-scouting is always critical, not just in regards to opponents but to your own tendencies and organizations. And it's going to be more critical than ever for the players and coaches in the defensive front seven heading into 2019, because Alabama could wind up losing all its best players up there and returning guys that have struggled for a year or more. I've got an uneasy feeling next year will be even loopier than this year in regards to what the defense can and can't stop.
I agree completely with this. If Buggs, Q, Dieonte, and Anfernee are all not in the roster next year, name who is ready to rise and play at their level or higher next year? Sure I know who is on the roster but from my point of view we have some critical issues facing us next year in the front 7. This problem has been building since 2016 which is also the same time we started transitioning to a different style of player in our front 7.

I would tell you outside of QB and WR we have alot of work to do rebuilding, not reloading, the rotations in the other position groups and special teams. I believe the coaching turnover has had an impact more than we realize.

Coach has always said he likes rebuilding more than anything in coaching. Well I think he has got plenty to look forward to, imo.

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gtgilbert

All-American
Aug 12, 2011
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A lot of people last night in my Twitter feed were clamoring for Anoma to play. The problem with that is Anoma is less polished than Courtney Upshaw was a true freshman.
I'd like to dig in this point a bit more:

On Anoma - I completely agree he wasn't ready to be an every down edge guy in the SEC. What I do think he could have gotten more reps for is package situations where we just need a pure pass rush. Lewis and Allen were out at the first of the season. In addition to Anoma, we also had Parks and Latu (maybe parks more than Latu since parks already has a decent frame) who we could have played more early in the year in several games to potentially help them prepare to contribute if needed. It couldn't have been much worse than playing mosely in 17 with potentially more upside. We did that some with Tim Williams early on and also with Rashaan Evans before he moved inside. Neither, and especially Evans, were edge setters or run defenders, but we found spots they could at least get a few reps to take some of the heat off the other guys
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
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Gadsden, Al.
Clemson wrap-up: How Bama recovers – or doesn’t – will determine much of program’s future
by Jess Nicholas
TideFans Editor-In-Chief
January 8th, 2019 12:24 AM

By Jess Nicholas TideFans.com Editor-In-Chief Jan. 7, 2019 Whether you’re an optimist (“We still have Nick Saban!”) or a pessimist (“This was the beginning of the end!”) about Alabama football probably hinges on how many total points you thought swung about on two poor decisions and throws from QB Tua Tagovailoa, and Alabama’s response to […]

Read More Here
Great analysis.
My take is we were out played, and out coached.
The question now is what are we going to do about it?

What happened last night is Clemson did to us what we did to other teams.
(Now we know how bad it feels)

I have to give an ATTA BOY to Brent Venables.
Brent Venables had an answer for everything we tried.
The Clemson Defense dominated us.
We were allowed to run/pass Willy Nilly between the 20s,
but they clamped down when we got to the Red Zone.
Venables head games with Tua were wildly successful.

IMO: Our coaches had a game plan that was suspect.
Clemson beat us at our own game.

I have to congratulate Dabo, and Brent Venables.
They executed a great game

I said it while ago...
NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS.
It's a cinch the better teams will all throw some version of the Clemson Offense and Defense at us next year.
WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT?
NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS...
 
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PalmBayBama

All-SEC
Oct 11, 2005
1,110
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55
45
Palm Bay, FL
I also wonder about the cumulative effect of extra games due to making it to the cfp title every year. That’s a conference championship game, a semifinal game and a national championship game. I know we haven’t played in the conference game every year, but that’s a lot of tough, physical games, that some opponents don’t have to play.

I’ve heard a similar about nba teams i.e. warriors, who start to look worn out because they have played so many games in consecutive years.
Clemson has played the same number of games as Alabama over the last 4 years.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

JessN

Administrator & Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
6,269
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I'd like to dig in this point a bit more:

On Anoma - I completely agree he wasn't ready to be an every down edge guy in the SEC. What I do think he could have gotten more reps for is package situations where we just need a pure pass rush. Lewis and Allen were out at the first of the season. In addition to Anoma, we also had Parks and Latu (maybe parks more than Latu since parks already has a decent frame) who we could have played more early in the year in several games to potentially help them prepare to contribute if needed. It couldn't have been much worse than playing mosely in 17 with potentially more upside. We did that some with Tim Williams early on and also with Rashaan Evans before he moved inside. Neither, and especially Evans, were edge setters or run defenders, but we found spots they could at least get a few reps to take some of the heat off the other guys
Well, this goes back to the oldest complaint I have about Nick Saban, and it's also one of Dabo Swinney's greatest strengths: Playing more players (or in Saban's case, not enough).

It's especially problematic on defense. Except in three cases (Diggs' season-ending injury, S.Smith's injury Monday night, and Jared Mayden's targeting suspension against UGA), Bama played six DBs in close games the entire year, with the exception of Diggs' injury that brought Mayden into the weekly plan, and the minor exception that Daniel Wright was originally getting the snaps in dollar that went to Mayden until Wright hurt his foot. Once Wright got hurt, we never ran another seven-DB coverage the whole year and/or subbed out one of the regular DBs. Up front, we played seven DL for the first month and then stopped playing Musika. At linebacker, McMillon got a handful of snaps in non-blowouts (like less than 10) but no one else played when games were close. Saban has always put together playing rotations like he was still in Miami with a 53-man roster limit.

On offense, we rotated a lot at RB but elsewhere, there was almost no rotation at all. Lester Cotton/Deonte Brown was the only spot that saw on-field competition. Miller Forristall worked in some packages at TE. At wide receiver? We played four guys. Every time I bring that up someone asks "which one of our four studs do you want to sit" but that's not how it works. You have to give guys a blow every now and then or they're just going to run out of gas. We occasionally let Tyrell Shavers or Derek Kief into the game, and by "occasionally" I mean with the same frequency as Halley's Comet. Kief should have played a lot more this year; he had height, he could block and he was a popular fifth-year senior who could catch.

I agree that Anoma should have gotten more rabbit snaps this year, and our handling of Parks/Latu might encourage one of them to seek a transfer. None of those guys were realistic options at ILB, though, where Alabama had more pertinent struggles. We really needed to give Benton, Kaho and Moody more chances. The fact we were still playing starters late in games where we had 20- or 30-point leads was sort of ridiculous.

However, I have learned that this isn't going to change, because that's a leopard-and-its-spots issue for Saban.
 
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Jkl0802

1st Team
Apr 9, 2015
461
143
67
Stuttgart, Germany
I agree wholeheartedly with Jess. I listened to ESPN radio on TuneIn because I was outside the US and I heard the announcers make the point that Clemson was playing a freshman DB that had played in 2 or 3 games because he tackled well and was playing in this game because he would still maintain his redshirt. Made me think, “Why doesn’t Alabama ever do that?” I understand the potential for Freshmen to make mistakes, but we had Defensive linemen who were hampered by leg injuries which precluded them from Chasing down plays and others worn out and tired from HUNH....I just don’t believe that a proven guy that can hardly run is better than a young stud ready to fight tired offensive linemen and chase down folks.

On the first interception, why did we have a receiver running an out and another beside him running a hook? Enabled both defenders to sit on a 10 yard pass with no worry of a deep ball?

Finally, we have to address kicking and punting next year. Yes, I know we have a stud recruit coming in from In state. But I wish we would hold a South East regional try outs this summer and invite soccer players, rugby players and High School kickers of all types...the best should be given preferred walk on options and then let them compete in spring, whittle down the number, and then compete and select in the Summer. Missing 9 PATs is not acceptable. Kicking the hall out of bounds is not acceptable.
 
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davefrat

Hall of Fame
Jun 4, 2002
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I agree wholeheartedly with Jess. I listened to ESPN radio on TuneIn because I was outside the US and I heard the announcers make the point that Clemson was playing a freshman DB that had played in 2 or 3 games because he tackled well and was playing in this game because he would still maintain his redshirt. Made me think, “Why doesn’t Alabama ever do that?” I understand the potential for Freshmen to make mistakes, but we had Defensive linemen who were hampered by leg injuries which precluded them from Chasing down plays and others worn out and tired from HUNH....I just don’t believe that a proven guy that can hardly run is better than a young stud ready to fight tired offensive linemen and chase down folks.

On the first interception, why did we have a receiver running an out and another beside him running a hook? Enabled both defenders to sit on a 10 yard pass with no worry of a deep ball?

Finally, we have to address kicking and punting next year. Yes, I know we have a stud recruit coming in from In state. But I wish we would hold a South East regional try outs this summer and invite soccer players, rugby players and High School kickers of all types...the best should be given preferred walk on options and then let them compete in spring, whittle down the number, and then compete and select in the Summer. Missing 9 PATs is not acceptable. Kicking the hall out of bounds is not acceptable.
the first INT looked like the DB jumped the route because he knew the play that was being run.

i think Clemson was incredibly well-prepared for us.

i said in another thread that considering basically the entire Clemson staff (they've apparently only lost 2 assistants to our 13 during that time) and half their starters have been playing and planning for Bama for the last 4 years that they probably know us as well (and in some cases even better) than we know ourselves.

we got taken to the woodshed by Dabo and company...from game prep to game plan to execution to focus to adjustments.

it was a complete and total domination...they have our number.

we need to get things straight because Clemson isn't going anywhere for quite some time and our window under Saban is limited simply due to his age.
 

Jkl0802

1st Team
Apr 9, 2015
461
143
67
Stuttgart, Germany
Good points all; I agree with you.

None of us should forget that last year Clemson was going through much of the same doubt after our beat down of them. This year, they wanted it more, coaches, players, fans...all. I have no doubt Alabama players and coaches will play with a chip on their shoulder next year. As CNS said, a lot of good can come from a loss. If the players and fans don’t like losing, address and redouble efforts to correct the shortfalls that led to defeat this year. There is no one better to have at the helm than our coach.
 

bamacon

Hall of Fame
Apr 11, 2008
17,179
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187
College Football's Mecca, Tuscaloosa
Well, this goes back to the oldest complaint I have about Nick Saban, and it's also one of Dabo Swinney's greatest strengths: Playing more players (or in Saban's case, not enough).

It's especially problematic on defense. Except in three cases (Diggs' season-ending injury, S.Smith's injury Monday night, and Jared Mayden's targeting suspension against UGA), Bama played six DBs in close games the entire year, with the exception of Diggs' injury that brought Mayden into the weekly plan, and the minor exception that Daniel Wright was originally getting the snaps in dollar that went to Mayden until Wright hurt his foot. Once Wright got hurt, we never ran another seven-DB coverage the whole year and/or subbed out one of the regular DBs. Up front, we played seven DL for the first month and then stopped playing Musika. At linebacker, McMillon got a handful of snaps in non-blowouts (like less than 10) but no one else played when games were close. Saban has always put together playing rotations like he was still in Miami with a 53-man roster limit.

On offense, we rotated a lot at RB but elsewhere, there was almost no rotation at all. Lester Cotton/Deonte Brown was the only spot that saw on-field competition. Miller Forristall worked in some packages at TE. At wide receiver? We played four guys. Every time I bring that up someone asks "which one of our four studs do you want to sit" but that's not how it works. You have to give guys a blow every now and then or they're just going to run out of gas. We occasionally let Tyrell Shavers or Derek Kief into the game, and by "occasionally" I mean with the same frequency as Halley's Comet. Kief should have played a lot more this year; he had height, he could block and he was a popular fifth-year senior who could catch.

I agree that Anoma should have gotten more rabbit snaps this year, and our handling of Parks/Latu might encourage one of them to seek a transfer. None of those guys were realistic options at ILB, though, where Alabama had more pertinent struggles. We really needed to give Benton, Kaho and Moody more chances. The fact we were still playing starters late in games where we had 20- or 30-point leads was sort of ridiculous.

However, I have learned that this isn't going to change, because that's a leopard-and-its-spots issue for Saban.
And that’s weird considering that he’s has changed many of his philosophies on both sides of the ball to change with how teams were playing now. If this Clemson team didn’t show him that what you said is a must...you’re right, nothing will!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
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Well, this goes back to the oldest complaint I have about Nick Saban, and it's also one of Dabo Swinney's greatest strengths: Playing more players (or in Saban's case, not enough).

It's especially problematic on defense. Except in three cases (Diggs' season-ending injury, S.Smith's injury Monday night, and Jared Mayden's targeting suspension against UGA), Bama played six DBs in close games the entire year, with the exception of Diggs' injury that brought Mayden into the weekly plan, and the minor exception that Daniel Wright was originally getting the snaps in dollar that went to Mayden until Wright hurt his foot. Once Wright got hurt, we never ran another seven-DB coverage the whole year and/or subbed out one of the regular DBs. Up front, we played seven DL for the first month and then stopped playing Musika. At linebacker, McMillon got a handful of snaps in non-blowouts (like less than 10) but no one else played when games were close. Saban has always put together playing rotations like he was still in Miami with a 53-man roster limit.

On offense, we rotated a lot at RB but elsewhere, there was almost no rotation at all. Lester Cotton/Deonte Brown was the only spot that saw on-field competition. Miller Forristall worked in some packages at TE. At wide receiver? We played four guys. Every time I bring that up someone asks "which one of our four studs do you want to sit" but that's not how it works. You have to give guys a blow every now and then or they're just going to run out of gas. We occasionally let Tyrell Shavers or Derek Kief into the game, and by "occasionally" I mean with the same frequency as Halley's Comet. Kief should have played a lot more this year; he had height, he could block and he was a popular fifth-year senior who could catch.

I agree that Anoma should have gotten more rabbit snaps this year, and our handling of Parks/Latu might encourage one of them to seek a transfer. None of those guys were realistic options at ILB, though, where Alabama had more pertinent struggles. We really needed to give Benton, Kaho and Moody more chances. The fact we were still playing starters late in games where we had 20- or 30-point leads was sort of ridiculous.

However, I have learned that this isn't going to change, because that's a leopard-and-its-spots issue for Saban.
Honestly, it's irritating to see when you consider the new redshirt rule.

Here are the guys that burned their redshirt in 2018:

Eyabi Anoma, 12 games
Josh Jobe, 14 games
Ale Kaho, 15 games
Jaylen Moody, 14 games

If those guys are going to play in over 80% of the games for special teams, put them out there to get in game reps.

Guys that could have at least been a body on the field to give others a break:

Christian Barmore, 0 games
Cameron Latu, 2 games
Jarez Parks, 0 games
Stephon Wynn, 0 games

Again, I'm not saying play these guys when the game is on the line, but they can't at least get some game reps to gain experience while giving someone else a breather?
 

Jkl0802

1st Team
Apr 9, 2015
461
143
67
Stuttgart, Germany
Honestly, it's irritating to see when you consider the new redshirt rule.

Here are the guys that burned their redshirt in 2018:

Eyabi Anoma, 12 games
Josh Jobe, 14 games
Ale Kaho, 15 games
Jaylen Moody, 14 games

If those guys are going to play in over 80% of the games for special teams, put them out there to get in game reps.

Guys that could have at least been a body on the field to give others a break:

Christian Barmore, 0 games
Cameron Latu, 2 games
Jarez Parks, 0 games
Stephon Wynn, 0 games

Again, I'm not saying play these guys when the game is on the line, but they can't at least get some game reps to gain experience while giving someone else a breather?
Wholeheartedly agree RTR91!
 

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