2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

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Bazza

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The White House has a fence around it. I recall several times in my lifetime people just hoping over the damn thing and getting on White House grounds. Only thing fences do are impede the people who really are disinterested in getting on the other side.
There's a phrase.......something like "keeping honest people honest."

That's how I view it too.

If someone ones to break through - they will find a way.

Fences and walls serve a purpose but they aren't the 'end all'.
 

TIDE-HSV

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There's a phrase.......something like "keeping honest people honest."

That's how I view it too.

If someone ones to break through - they will find a way.

Fences and walls serve a purpose but they aren't the 'end all'.
The problem here is that virtually all the real experts seem to agree that the wall is most definitely not the best security method. There may be spots where it may be helpful but that's all. The money needs to be spent where it will do some good. It's really about a campaign promise and an ego/image problem. He doesn't believe he can be reelected unless he delivers a wall...
 

92tide

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The problem here is that virtually all the real experts seem to agree that the wall is most definitely not the best security method. There may be spots where it may be helpful but that's all. The money needs to be spent where it will do some good. It's really about a campaign promise and an ego/image problem. He doesn't believe he can be reelected unless he delivers a wall...
from my understanding, in many of the spots where it may be helpful, there are already barriers/walls
 

uafanataum

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The problem here is that virtually all the real experts seem to agree that the wall is most definitely not the best security method. There may be spots where it may be helpful but that's all. The money needs to be spent where it will do some good. It's really about a campaign promise and an ego/image problem. He doesn't believe he can be reelected unless he delivers a wall...
Which is just crazy reasoning. How would building a wall be the deciding factor to like 120million votes? There is something wrong with that man's brain.
 

TIDE-HSV

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from my understanding, in many of the spots where it may be helpful, there are already barriers/walls
True and he's even hinted as much as an excuse to shrink the scope of the project. He's even parroted what was told to him earlier, that some of the territory is so rugged that nothing further is needed...
 

TIDE-HSV

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Which is just crazy reasoning. How would building a wall be the deciding factor to like 120million votes? There is something wrong with that man's brain.
You are overlooking something - the man won the EC by only 77K votes. You don't think he could lose that many of his base, if he doesn't deliver a wall of some kind? I think he's absolutely correct...
 

Bazza

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The problem here is that virtually all the real experts seem to agree that the wall is most definitely not the best security method. There may be spots where it may be helpful but that's all. The money needs to be spent where it will do some good. It's really about a campaign promise and an ego/image problem. He doesn't believe he can be reelected unless he delivers a wall...

I don't doubt what you are saying - and have said it myself earlier in the thread - we should be working on fencing where it makes sense - taking input from the border patrol.

As far as the next presidential election - as i stated earlier in the thread - let's hope we get better candidates this time around. I'm not sure we will. I think our entire political system is so dysfunctional right now - it's ridiculous.

Back to the thread topic though - this thing isn't over with the government shutdown. Political gamesmanship is afoot!
 

92tide

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I don't doubt what you are saying - and have said it myself earlier in the thread - we should be working on fencing where it makes sense - taking input from the border patrol.

As far as the next presidential election - as i stated earlier in the thread - let's hope we get better candidates this time around. I'm not sure we will. I think our entire political system is so dysfunctional right now - it's ridiculous.

Back to the thread topic though - this thing isn't over with the government shutdown. Political gamesmanship is afoot!
in large part it is dysfunctional because one of the two parties in our two party system has made governmental dysfunction a goal, and voters keep supporting them and hand wave blame at "both sides"
 

UAH

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The problem here is that virtually all the real experts seem to agree that the wall is most definitely not the best security method. There may be spots where it may be helpful but that's all. The money needs to be spent where it will do some good. It's really about a campaign promise and an ego/image problem. He doesn't believe he can be reelected unless he delivers a wall...
I watched a video recently where they were increasing the height of the metal fencing between Tijuana and San Diego. It is somewhat easier to comprehend how a wall could be justified in areas where millions reside on either side of the border. That is without getting into a debate on the morality of a wall to begin with.

Looking at El Paso, Laredo and McAllen I believe one has to think of the generations upon generations who have lived together along the border and think how important it is for the people who live there to be involved in deciding what level of security is needed. When we have Washington in the lead we end up with $ millions spent on fences to no where. There is evidence of that all along the border.

The other issue that has been developing is as security has been tightened in the urban areas migrants have been forced to attempt crossings in the desert where large numbers are dying every year in an attempt to come here to do menial labor. I would tend to classify that as equally inhuman to separating the children of amnesty seekers at the border.

Trying to sort this out in my mind today I come to realize that what Trump is attempting to accomplish is to draw the entire country into a completely racist and jingoistic statement of international policy.

Those who propose compromise for the expediency of opening the government fail to realize where the end point of this is. When we allow a small militant percentage of our population dictate the direction of this country.
 

Bazza

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in large part it is dysfunctional because one of the two parties in our two party system has made governmental dysfunction a goal, and voters keep supporting them and hand wave blame at "both sides"
A little off thread topic but IMHO, Trump was elected mostly because the voters were sick and tired of "politics as usual".

You want a different vote? Give the voters someone who doesn't act like a politician. Meaning a candidate who isn't afraid to break with the party where they feel it will help the country.

It's not the fault of the voter...it's the fault of these professional politicians. And the system that supports them. Not the least of which is the Democratic and Republican Parties...who are making money hand over fist with their gamesmanship.
 

Crimson1967

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I don’t think people will abandon him if he doesn’t get the wall. What Democrat would they support instead?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TIDE-HSV

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I don't doubt what you are saying - and have said it myself earlier in the thread - we should be working on fencing where it makes sense - taking input from the border patrol.

As far as the next presidential election - as i stated earlier in the thread - let's hope we get better candidates this time around. I'm not sure we will. I think our entire political system is so dysfunctional right now - it's ridiculous.

Back to the thread topic though - this thing isn't over with the government shutdown. Political gamesmanship is afoot!
You do realize that he had two full years with complete political control to get his wall, if he/they had really wanted it. Likewise, the government could be reopened in a matter of a couple of days, if he would accept a clean bill and then negotiate with the Democrats. Instead, he's determined to prove he can push a Democratic House around by using hostages. Any reasonable person would say all of the gamesmanship it totally on one side at this point...
 
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