2019 Federal government shut down and the wall - Page 3
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  1. #27
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Iíve seen the word strategy a few times here. For the GOP/Trump there is no strategy other than sign the pass/bills the House is giving them. Trump had a bill to sign(not even a blank one this time) that passed the Senate 100-0 and let Fox News take him into sending it back to the House. No strategy there. The Dem Strategy should be let Trump and the GOP dig as deep of a hole as they want here.

  2. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    I’ve seen the word strategy a few times here. For the GOP/Trump there is no strategy other than sign the pass/bills the House is giving them. Trump had a bill to sign(not even a blank one this time) that passed the Senate 100-0 and let Fox News take him into sending it back to the House. No strategy there. The Dem Strategy should be let Trump and the GOP dig as deep of a hole as they want here.
    trumpies love to project all kinds of positive spin and motivations on this slow motion train wreck that is the twitler administration/gop.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  3. #29
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I'm sorry you interpreted my OP that way, Matt. I was interested solely on opinions about strategy and tactics.

    No worries...I know you are emotionally invested in this situation which I view as a positive.

    Thanks for responding anyway....
    This is how I interpret your OPs because I know you are not emotionally invested in this situation - at least not enough to actually let any information sway you from your man crush/support:

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

  4. #30
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by uafanataum View Post
    The person you were responding to earlier said nothing about Trump being cool and even said the majority of the nation likely put more blame on Trump than they do on democrats.
    Perhaps I misread his "Trump more responsible" as saying that Trump was being the more responsible one than the Democrats but the Trump being so cool part is always in the subtext anyway.

  5. #31
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    This is how I interpret your OPs because I know you are not emotionally invested in this situation - at least not enough to actually let any information sway you from your man crush/support:

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll
    ties in to that civility nonsense that was the "strategy/tactic" for a while

    from the link
    One common tactic of concern trolls is the "a plague on both your houses" approach, where the concern troll tries to convince people that both sides of the ideological divide are just as bad as each other, and so no one can think themselves "correct" but must engage in endless hedging and caveats. This preys on a willingness to debate critics and allow dissent; everyone wastes time discussing the matter and bending over backwards, so as not to appear intolerant of disagreement, all to the great amusement of the troll.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  6. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    You do understand that this 5 billion is really just the down payment? The total cost is estimated up to 10 billion, and, being government, probably much more, with condemnations, etc. The DHS, in a leaked report, said 21.6 billion. If they give him the five billion, how can they turn him down for the rest, even if it doubles or triples. I can see giving him one billion and assigning it to a committee for a feasibility study, since there's never been one...
    Good point. I just looked it up and here's what I found:

    Cost estimates for the wall vary greatly. Here are some relevant estimates, as chronicled by news publication Quartz.


    • In July 2016, Bernstein Research, a firm that analyzes material costs, put the price tag at $15 billion to $25 billion, for a wall that stretches 1,000 miles and is 40 feet high, which was Trumpís initial desired height.
    • In January 2017, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell said the wall would be $12 billion to $15 billion.
    • In February 2017, a leaked report from the Department of Homeland Security put it much higher, at $21.6 billion.
    • In April 2017, the Democratic staff of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee said in a report that costs could soar to nearly $70 billion ó not including the significant costs and legal resources required for land acquisition.

    Petersí spokesman Jacob Peters said the congressman used the $21.6 billion estimate because it "comes from the internal report done by the Department of Homeland Security."
    "This estimate falls somewhere in the middle of the range of cost estimates," the spokesman added. "Because this report was commissioned by (Department of Homeland Security) Secretary Kelly, and is based on the Trump administrationís own planning process to build walls and fences to cover almost the entirety of the border that is not already fenced, it is the best current estimate for what President Trump is likely to ask Congress to appropriate to build his border wall."
    We also used the $21.6 billion as our estimate.

  7. #33
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    The data doesn't seem to agree with your gut here.
    538: Trump Has Lost Ground In The Shutdown Blame Game
    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    Perhaps I misread his "Trump more responsible" as saying that Trump was being the more responsible one than the Democrats but the Trump being so cool part is always in the subtext anyway.
    By "responsible"......I meant the one who is mostly accountable for this happening......

  8. #34
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Just ran across this article. Glad to see someone is trying to get something done......

    Has to help the Dems in public perception, no?

    House Democrats have a new strategy to reopen the government: pass smaller spending bills


    They may not go anywhere, but they’re aimed at putting pressure on Republicans.

    By Li Zhouli@vox.com Updated Jan 7, 2019, 4:36pm EST

    What Democrats have proposed

    Democrats, meanwhile, haven’t shown any sign of caving to Trump’s demands on a border wall — and are continuing to take a series of relatively symbolic actions to put pressure on their Republican counterparts.
    This week, House Democrats plan to pass four individual appropriations bills that would fund agencies that are not controversial, like the Treasury Department, the Interior Department, and the Agriculture Department.
    Their actions are largely about party messaging: House Democrats already effectively passed these bills as part of a larger funding package that closely resembled legislation the GOP-controlled Senate approved last year. By bringing them up again and approving each bill one by one, Democrats are trying to hammer home the message that they’re actively working to address the shutdown while Republicans look like they’re standing by. Republicans, however, have said they aren’t interested in opening the government in a fragmented way, Politico reports.
    House Democrats’ actions come as pressure continues to grow on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell — from Democrats as well as Republican leaders like Sens. Cory Gardner and Susan Collins — who are urging him to take up legislation that would reopen the government, even if it doesn’t provide the wall funding Trump has asked for.

  9. #35
    FB|BB Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    "Crisis of the heart" just about says it all. I'd add "and of the mind" for good measure.

    There is no good reason for Trump to shut down the government until he gets his way on a stupid wall.

    It's my opinion that he is using this more as a distraction to have us talk about this rather than talk about the investigation into his campaign/administration.

    It's an evil man that uses good people as pawns to be discarded on a whim for selfish reasons that have nothing at all to do with what is good for the nation and its people. This isn't about a higher principle, or a higher goal, or anything good in the world. It's about Trump and Trump only. He doesn't care about immigrants or government workers or the poor or the middle class or homebuyers or anyone else if their name is not Donald Trump. I wouldn't doubt that he enjoys seeing his kids do well simply because it makes him look better if they do - so he can show them off to the world and point at himself. Who thinks he ever once changed a dirty diaper?
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  10. #36
    FB|BB Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    Just ran across this article. Glad to see someone is trying to get something done......

    Has to help the Dems in public perception, no?

    House Democrats have a new strategy to reopen the government: pass smaller spending bills


    They may not go anywhere, but they’re aimed at putting pressure on Republicans.

    By Li Zhouli@vox.com Updated Jan 7, 2019, 4:36pm EST
    Who controlled Congress when the shutdown began? When did democrats take over the house?

    This was not caused in any way by democrats.

    This was caused by a petulant child.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  11. #37
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles17 View Post
    "Crisis of the heart" just about says it all. I'd add "and of the mind" for good measure.

    There is no good reason for Trump to shut down the government until he gets his way on a stupid wall.

    It's my opinion that he is using this more as a distraction to have us talk about this rather than talk about the investigation into his campaign/administration.

    It's an evil man that uses good people as pawns to be discarded on a whim for selfish reasons that have nothing at all to do with what is good for the nation and its people. This isn't about a higher principle, or a higher goal, or anything good in the world. It's about Trump and Trump only. He doesn't care about immigrants or government workers or the poor or the middle class or homebuyers or anyone else if their name is not Donald Trump. I wouldn't doubt that he enjoys seeing his kids do well simply because it makes him look better if they do - so he can show them off to the world and point at himself. Who thinks he ever once changed a dirty diaper?
    it says a lot about the folks who continue to support him
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  12. #38
    BamaNation All-SEC
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Trump administration spent more than $13 million to hire 2 border agents

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...-report-finds/

    Anyone who believes that over 3,000 miles of wall can be built by the federal government considering the vast number issues of imminent domain along the route, small towns with areas that would have to be razed and mountainous areas that would require months of preparation for construction with the cost ballooning by billions is not being honest with themselves!

    The ridiculousness of Trumps proposal that is backed by Pence and fellow Conservative Republicans is that under their watch the Federal Debt increased by $1.2 Trillion in the last fiscal year due to the Republican Tax Cut. Now the proposal is to borrow $30 plus Billion more to build a wall as a purely political stunt.

    The dishonesty embedded in this proposal borders on criminal neglect of their oath of office!

  13. #39
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Federal government shut down and the wall

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles17 View Post
    Who controlled Congress when the shutdown began? When did democrats take over the house?

    This was not caused in any way by democrats.

    This was caused by a petulant child.
    a petulant child who has 85+ % approval rating within his own party, which i might add is full of people who like to tut-tut about how everyone gets a participation trophy and libtards spoil their snowflake children and don't do the right things to instill discipline
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

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