Kirby Smart's Success Leading to Further Attrition

bamaga

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That's causation. And sure you can debate whether or not Kirby's success has had an effect on how many Bama assistants have been hired since his departure. Correlation is the direct relationship between two variables. Those variables are the point in time when Kirby left and the increased rate at which assistants have been hired away from Bama since. The correlation between those two variables can't be debated.
You are saying that the causation is Kirby Smart’s success, in your title . That is untrue. I will argue there is no correlation ( a mutual relationship between 2 or more things) , only coincidence. (a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection) . I figured I would include the definitions before you would on the next post ;)
 

TitleWave

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Better news than the coveted award claimed by Banksy is, a successor to his special teams "reign" is only a phone call away and undoubtedly nestled in Saban's Rolodex for bolstering the 'Bama staff and STs standing!

I am so glad you mentioned this. Believe it or not, Jeff Banks actually won an award for Special Teams Coordinator of the year. How is this possible? I have no earthly idea. But it happened. AL.com did an article on it stating that he was named Football Scoop's Special Teams Coordinator of the Year back on Dec. 20, 2018.
 

Chukker Veteran

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I think many top flight coaches improve with age and experience. In my opinion, Saban is a better coach now than he was when he was younger and coaching at LSU.

I say that to point out that Kirby is having success now, but his head coaching may well improve with time and experience. Kirby has a solid foundation from coaching under Saban for such a long time, with the stage set for him to emerge as one of the very top coaches active in college ball.

On the other hand, he may well get burned out early or just poop out and lose his mojo.
 

TheBeasKnees

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You are saying that the causation is Kirby Smart’s success, in your title . That is untrue. I will argue there is no correlation ( a mutual relationship between 2 or more things) , only coincidence. (a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection) . I figured I would include the definitions before you would on the next post ;)
Haha. We could argue about this all day. From a purely mathematical perspective, a correlation between Kirby's departure and the increased rate of coaching turnover at Bama exists. Therefore, that correlation is not debatable. The causation is absolutely my opinion and debatable. I believe that Kirby's success is the causation of that correlation, but you can absolutely debate that if you want. I really think we just have a disconnect here over the word correlation.
 
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bamaga

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Haha. We could argue about this all day. From a purely mathematical perspective, a correlation between Kirby's departure and the increased rate of coaching turnover at Bama exists. Therefore, that correlation is not debatable. The causation is absolutely my opinion and debatable. I believe that Kirby's success is the causation of that correlation, but you can absolutely debate that if you want. I really think we just have a disconnect here over the word correlation.

Ok, so how is Kirby’s success leading to attrition in your opinion? Are programs trying to emulate Kirby? Or are other programs wanting to emulate Nick and are encouraged by Kirby’s success?
 

WylieTexasTider

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I am so glad you mentioned this. Believe it or not, Jeff Banks actually won an award for Special Teams Coordinator of the year. How is this possible? I have no earthly idea. But it happened. AL.com did an article on it stating that he was named Football Scoop's Special Teams Coordinator of the Year back on Dec. 20, 2018.
Banks is a very good ST coach. He had a head case in Skyler Delong at P and below average place kickers. The return teams and coverage teams were very highly rated. Saban commented that in practice Skyler kicked very well but, the big stage got him. Unless Banks is a licensed shrink, not sure what he could do.

Look at his ST at aTm his punters were Ray Guy finalists and named All Americans. His place kickers were also amongst the best in the country. I fully expect our FG woes to be resolved with our new kicker coming in. The most talented kicker we’ve had in years, maybe a decade or more.
 

JDCrimson

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If I am a recruit with offers from Bama, Clemson, UT, and UGA, I would probably accept the offers in that order.

CNS has had other-worldly success and has integrity in standing behind what he says.

Dabo is a successful Johnny come lately with a folksy demeanor a good story about his upbringing to sell on the recruiting trail and a charisma that makes you want to play for him.

Pruitt when he gets his machine rolling will likely be a balanced combo between CNS and Dabo technically strong and a very likeable guy.

But, at least since he has become a HC, Smart has come across as whiny, petulent, and vindictive and rather dry in his personality. He acts like a insecure HS coach imo. Not at all someone I would like having a meal or beer with or inviting into my home. I just dont see how you hide these traits on the recruiting trail. I just dont see how he can do as well as he is doing without just bald face lying to recruits and parents. I think his program will rot from within over time.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

AlexanderFan

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And Alabama is one offensive pass interference call from having three of the last four national titles.

Can you even name any coaches who left before Smart?

Sure. But I'm not sure what purpose that would serve.
It would show that plenty of Bama coaches were leaving before Smart left. In recruiting it's referred to as the "Bama bump". To sum it up: Alabama does all the work and finds this unknown prospect and offers him a scholarship. Now that the recruit has been discovered others look at his film and suddenly they offer him a scholarship and his recruiting rankings skyrocket and he becomes a hot commodity. This is exactly what happens with Alabama assistant coaches as well. Saban does the homework and finds a coach, that coach performs well on a national stage, and suddenly he has his choice of employment. KS was by no means the first coach to parlay his time at Alabama into a higher paying job, and he certainly won't be the last.

Honestly the only difference is that KS actually hung around until his preferred landing spot opened up.
 

graydogg85

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Mark Richt (1st 3 years): 32-8 (18-6 SEC) 1 SECC
Kirby Smart: 32-10 (18-6 SEC) 1SECC

I think its hard to argue that Richt didn't inherit nearly the amount of talent from Jim Donnan as KS did from Richt. Its also hard to argue that KS has faced as stiff competition in the East as Richt did either. At some point you have to ask "what has changed?" The answer is "Nothing except KS is just more motivated than Mark Richt was in his final years at UGA, and on par with Mark Richt in his first 3 years."

FWIW I think Kirby is a GOOD coach, maybe a snake in the grass and a pouty man baby that I hope nothing but the worst for, but its hard to argue that he isn't one of the top 15 (maybe top 10) active coaches in college football. But a clear and present danger to Alabama.... I'm just not sold because he has had everything going for him but still couldn't finish the job. It is possible Kirby proves me wrong but in the meantime I just think him and UGA are just him and UGA and nothing more.
Agree with this. Assuming they recruit well, I expect Mullen and Florida to overtake UGA as the dominant East Division program in the next 2-3 seasons, and foresee them as a larger long term threat than Georgia.

Pruitt could have UT competitive again relatively quickly, but his assignment is a much tougher task and Pruitt himself is still too much of an unknown as a HC.

Kirby is a good coach and frankly has been far more successful than I envisioned....I think a P5 progam, particularly a strong one with high expectations, is usually nuts for hiring a guy with no HC experience and I really expected Kirby to go more the way of Will Muschamp. He’s obviously doing a better job than Will did with a similar situation. But will he be appreciably better than Richt in the long term? I’d not bet on it, especially if Mullen gets UF going the way I think he will.
 

AlexanderFan

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If I am a recruit with offers from Bama, Clemson, UT, and UGA, I would probably accept the offers in that order.

CNS has had other-worldly success and has integrity in standing behind what he says.

Dabo is a successful Johnny come lately with a folksy demeanor a good story about his upbringing to sell on the recruiting trail and a charisma that makes you want to play for him.

Pruitt when he gets his machine rolling will likely be a balanced combo between CNS and Dabo technically strong and a very likeable guy.

But, at least since he has become a HC, Smart has come across as whiny, petulent, and vindictive and rather dry in his personality. He acts like a insecure HS coach imo. Not at all someone I would like having a meal or beer with or inviting into my home. I just dont see how you hide these traits on the recruiting trail. I just dont see how he can do as well as he is doing without just bald face lying to recruits and parents. I think his program will rot from within over time.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
I think if you were to ask Justin Fields the lying part would be accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

81usaf92

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I think to answer the op’s main question, “ no I don’t think Kirby is responsible for the trend”. If you look at CNS’s staffs from 2007-2013 they are full of older coaches that are happy with doing position coaching and young coaches that haven’t generated much interest from bigger jobs. Of course the exceptions are with the OCs. But from 2013-present he has plugged pretty well known and thought of names into position coaching and coordinator positions who dream of bigger and better jobs. I think I credit the type of coaches that he is bringing in over Kirby Smart being the reason for the turnover. Point is had we had John Chavis, Brent Venerables, or a Kevin Steele type coaches then the turnover wouldn’t be so bad because we wouldn’t have coaches with immediate HC and coordinator aspirations.
 

DawgByte

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I think Pruitt was a better DC than Smart.....
I don't know how you can reach that conclusion given the different durations in tenure between Smart and Pruitt. One year or even two years is not a large enough sample size.
 

B1GTide

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I don't know how you can reach that conclusion given the different durations in tenure between Smart and Pruitt. One year or even two years is not a large enough sample size.
IMO, Smart was a better DC during the era in which he was in that role, but he was not as effective toward the end. He had difficulty with 3rd down and long against spread offenses. Pruitt excelled at spread defense, and that probably makes him better today. But neither is a DC anymore, so it is immaterial.
 

TRU

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It would show that plenty of Bama coaches were leaving before Smart left. In recruiting it's referred to as the "Bama bump". To sum it up: Alabama does all the work and finds this unknown prospect and offers him a scholarship. Now that the recruit has been discovered others look at his film and suddenly they offer him a scholarship and his recruiting rankings skyrocket and he becomes a hot commodity. This is exactly what happens with Alabama assistant coaches as well. Saban does the homework and finds a coach, that coach performs well on a national stage, and suddenly he has his choice of employment. KS was by no means the first coach to parlay his time at Alabama into a higher paying job, and he certainly won't be the last.

Honestly the only difference is that KS actually hung around until his preferred landing spot opened up.
The root issue is that coaches are using Bama as a springboard, with increasing speed of turnover. I do not think CNS is going to become a folksy touchy-feely guy like Dabo as a way to hold on to his staff. My impression is that he is a stern taskmaster who demands long hours and total commitment from his staff. Tuscaloosa is probably not a great place to work if you want to have a life outside of your job. That said, why couldn't Bama start building in buyouts into the contracts they sign with assistant coaches? Say you sign on for three years, and if you leave to take another job, the school hiring you has to pay $5M to us. That would make the assistants very unattractive as a poaching target until their contract is complete. And you would still get people lining up to work for CNS because of the boost it gives their career. They would just know going in that they were committing to three years.
 

bamaga

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It’s been said in years past that Nick demands 2 years from coaches he hires, after that , it’s hard to tell a coach they can’t better themselves.
 

TRU

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It’s been said in years past that Nick demands 2 years from coaches he hires, after that , it’s hard to tell a coach they can’t better themselves.
That is what he asks for, but lately he has not been getting even two. Look at Pruitt last year, or Deboll, or Locksley this year. Granted Locksley was on the staff before, but he only did one year as OC. Elevating the gentleman's agreement to a contract with teeth would stop this from happening.
 

92tide

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That is what he asks for, but lately he has not been getting even two. Look at Pruitt last year, or Deboll, or Locksley this year. Granted Locksley was on the staff before, but he only did one year as OC. Elevating the gentleman's agreement to a contract with teeth would stop this from happening.
iirc, we had pruitt as dc for two years.
 

CajunCrimson

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UGA is already losing coaches and players. And they haven’t won anything yet.

Everyone wants a piece of Saban even if it’s through six degrees of separation
 

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