I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed. - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    We keep thinking we can be an elite hoops school. We cannot.

    We are doomed to forever be a different level hoops school. We will have mid level talent, mid level coaching, and mid level fan support.

    Not sure if Wimp jinxed us, but other than the one year we luckily got Stanford in RD 2, we are nearing 30 years of mediocrity

    It’s life
    I am not asking for elite. I am asking for good. A program that makes the dance 8 out of 10 years. A program that plays on the second weekend of the tournament three or four times in a ten year span. We have been the textbook definition of mediocrity since Wimp left. But, what about the twenty years before that? The twenty years before that we were the second best team in the SEC. There is no reason we couldn't do that again.

  2. #15
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    Iirc, Barnes was considered over the hill. White wasn't a big enough name. I really don't remember too many names after the guy at Wichita. I think that Avery wanted the job and it made Bill Battle's life easier to give it to him.

    Rtr
    I did not know this but last night on the Wes Neighbors/Steve Moulton show it was mentioned that Kermit Davis was the front runner for the job after Gregg Marshall turned us down until Avery contacted us to let us know he was interested in the job.

  3. #16
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    I have been a fan and supporter of Coach Johnson. He has a lot of enthusiasm, excellent background, proven recruiter while at Bama.

    However, I have continued to see the points made by poster linniepatrick above and agree. I was at the aTm game this past Saturday and recognized very early in the second half that the lack of defense and fundamentals demonstrated by the team would likely allow the first half lead erode and lose the game.

    It appeared that there was a lack of leadership from anyone on the floor. Coach Johnson's enthusiasm does not transfer to the players.

    I would be excited to see this team have a turn around, but I certainly do not expect it.
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  4. #17
    BamaNation All-American Mystical's Avatar
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Truth is he is right on target. This is his 4th year. Year one and two with Grants players he went to the NIT. Year 3 with his own players he went to the second round of the NCAA. Each year his win total has increased in a league that is much harder than what Grant or Gottfried had to deal with. We finally have an offense. We lost that last game because of letting off the gas when we were up. Coach Avery played AJ to many minutes. I don't think he will do that again. We have had 2 bad games this year but even the teams that are elite have bad games. I am sure Kentucky fans felt losing to us was a bad loss. Duke fans probably thought losing to Syracuse was a bad loss. If our fans were in charge of Duke Mike Kryzewski would have been fired after year 3 also. He didn't make the tournament till year 4.

    Alabama does not have a history of winning it all in basketball. When we were making sweet 16's during the Wimp years you didn't have the Mid Majors on tv like they are now. Back then our facilities for basketball were considered top 20 maybe top 10 in the country. Now you have 50 teams with better basketball facilities than we do. No surprise when teams spend money on their basketball facilities the wins go up. Look no further than Auburn and Tennessee. Coleman was the spot in the 70's and 80's. My dad told me he went to an Elvis concert there.

    We have to show some patience. There are not quick fixes. We are getting looks from players despite our fans not looking fanatical about basketball in recruits eyes. If he can keep recruiting like this he will win off talent alone. We are missing one dog player who will stick his nose in there and shut down the other teams point guard. Our best defender got rung up on some bogus calls the last game and barely saw the floor.
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  5. #18
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by imauafan View Post
    I did not know this but last night on the Wes Neighbors/Steve Moulton show it was mentioned that Kermit Davis was the front runner for the job after Gregg Marshall turned us down until Avery contacted us to let us know he was interested in the job.
    I don't ever remember hearing his name mentioned. Matter of fact, some were surprised Ole Miss hired him based on his past.
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  6. #19
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    I am still solid with Avery but the one thing he is got to get better at is getting the team to come out of the half with better intensity. In almost every game this season, we waste the first 6-8 opening minutes of the 2nd half in a scoring lapse either losing a comfortable lead or getting behind.

    I think our movement on offense is better this year but we dont have great ballhandlers and Petty cant hit squat away from home and who knows what is going on with Jones. We just simply should not have lost to GaSt or A&M.

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  7. #20
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    We keep thinking we can be an elite hoops school. We cannot.

    We are doomed to forever be a different level hoops school. We will have mid level talent, mid level coaching, and mid level fan support.

    Not sure if Wimp jinxed us, but other than the one year we luckily got Stanford in RD 2, we are nearing 30 years of mediocrity

    Itís life
    Thanks for the pep talk. LOL.

  8. #21
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystical View Post
    Truth is he is right on target. This is his 4th year. Year one and two with Grants players he went to the NIT. Year 3 with his own players he went to the second round of the NCAA. Each year his win total has increased in a league that is much harder than what Grant or Gottfried had to deal with. We finally have an offense. We lost that last game because of letting off the gas when we were up. Coach Avery played AJ to many minutes. I don't think he will do that again. We have had 2 bad games this year but even the teams that are elite have bad games. I am sure Kentucky fans felt losing to us was a bad loss. Duke fans probably thought losing to Syracuse was a bad loss. If our fans were in charge of Duke Mike Kryzewski would have been fired after year 3 also. He didn't make the tournament till year 4.

    Alabama does not have a history of winning it all in basketball. When we were making sweet 16's during the Wimp years you didn't have the Mid Majors on tv like they are now. Back then our facilities for basketball were considered top 20 maybe top 10 in the country. Now you have 50 teams with better basketball facilities than we do. No surprise when teams spend money on their basketball facilities the wins go up. Look no further than Auburn and Tennessee. Coleman was the spot in the 70's and 80's. My dad told me he went to an Elvis concert there.

    We have to show some patience. There are not quick fixes. We are getting looks from players despite our fans not looking fanatical about basketball in recruits eyes. If he can keep recruiting like this he will win off talent alone. We are missing one dog player who will stick his nose in there and shut down the other teams point guard. Our best defender got rung up on some bogus calls the last game and barely saw the floor.
    Yes, he is right on track, right on track for mediocrity. The writing is on the wall. Look what Pearl did in his 4th year. Look what Barnes is doing. Look what Howland is doing. Hell, look what Davis is doing in his first season. If you are happy with struggling to have a winning record every year and perhaps getting to the NCAA tournament once every five or six years, Avery is your man. But, like you said, the SEC is much tougher now. So, we need a coach that can compete. Our coach does not hold his players accountable for effort. You mention playing his son too much this past Saturday like it was a one-time thing. He routinely plays his son too much. Junior should play five minutes a game tops. Where is the improvement from year one to year four?

  9. #22
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by linniepatrick View Post
    Yes, he is right on track, right on track for mediocrity. The writing is on the wall. Look what Pearl did in his 4th year. Look what Barnes is doing. Look what Howland is doing. Hell, look what Davis is doing in his first season. If you are happy with struggling to have a winning record every year and perhaps getting to the NCAA tournament once every five or six years, Avery is your man. But, like you said, the SEC is much tougher now. So, we need a coach that can compete. Our coach does not hold his players accountable for effort. You mention playing his son too much this past Saturday like it was a one-time thing. He routinely plays his son too much. Junior should play five minutes a game tops. Where is the improvement from year one to year four?
    First, you've been a member since August but have only posted in this thread that you started? That's suspect.

    Second, which coach inherited a better situation - Davis or Avery? You know the answer.

    Third, you ask for improvement from year one to year four and try to bring up the conference being tougher. The fact Avery has 12 wins against ranked opponents shows some improvement. The average RPI under Grant was 79.8. Through this morning, the average RPI of Avery's tenure is 62.3. RealTimeRPI ranks Alabama's SOS #33 in the nation.

    Do you know what Alabama's SOS schedule has been under Avery?

    2016 - 40
    2017 - 72
    2018 - 12

    If you think things are staying the same as they were under Grant and the later Gottfriend years, what do you think those teams would be doing against the current SEC? And be sure to consider Grant wouldn't currently be getting the talent Avery is getting.

    Listen, I get there are problems and reason for frustration. There have been plenty of times I've doubted the way things are going. But if you want to make an argument about it, at least make an informed one.
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
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    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
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  10. #23
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    First, you've been a member since August but have only posted in this thread that you started? That's suspect.

    Second, which coach inherited a better situation - Davis or Avery? You know the answer.

    Third, you ask for improvement from year one to year four and try to bring up the conference being tougher. The fact Avery has 12 wins against ranked opponents shows some improvement. The average RPI under Grant was 79.8. Through this morning, the average RPI of Avery's tenure is 62.3. RealTimeRPI ranks Alabama's SOS #33 in the nation.

    Do you know what Alabama's SOS schedule has been under Avery?

    2016 - 40
    2017 - 72
    2018 - 12

    If you think things are staying the same as they were under Grant and the later Gottfriend years, what do you think those teams would be doing against the current SEC? And be sure to consider Grant wouldn't currently be getting the talent Avery is getting.

    Listen, I get there are problems and reason for frustration. There have been plenty of times I've doubted the way things are going. But if you want to make an argument about it, at least make an informed one.
    I have never said Avery isn't a better coach than Grant or Gottfried. I hated Gottfried. But, I just think in year four we should be showing better improvement. Oh, and my number of posts is totally irrelevant. I have been a huge basketball fan since 1981. Maybe that is part of my issue. I saw it when things were significantly better. Again, look at the product on the floor. Does he hold his players accountable for effort? Does he allow carelessness with the basketball? Routinely. What is our strategy on defense? What is our strategy on offense? What are we known for? You bring up Davis. Great, he inherited a better situation. What about Pearl? Auburn was consistently the worst program in the SEC for thirty years. SOS is great. I commend him for creating difficult schedules. He is better against top competition than Grant. Big deal. Grant is not and should not be the standard. What about the other losses? What about blowing a twenty point lead to freaking Georgia State? You can get all the talent you want, if you do not develop it, what good is it? Is Herb Jones better today than last year? Absolutely not. He has regressed offensively. Is Petty better? What about Ingram? LOL! Reese appears to have improved some so has Hall when we bother to get him involved in the offense. Smith showed promise at the end of last season, where is he this year?

  11. #24
    BamaNation All-American Mystical's Avatar
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by linniepatrick View Post
    Yes, he is right on track, right on track for mediocrity. The writing is on the wall. Look what Pearl did in his 4th year. Look what Barnes is doing. Look what Howland is doing. Hell, look what Davis is doing in his first season. If you are happy with struggling to have a winning record every year and perhaps getting to the NCAA tournament once every five or six years, Avery is your man. But, like you said, the SEC is much tougher now. So, we need a coach that can compete. Our coach does not hold his players accountable for effort. You mention playing his son too much this past Saturday like it was a one-time thing. He routinely plays his son too much. Junior should play five minutes a game tops. Where is the improvement from year one to year four?
    Pearl had the added benefit of having a new facility. Brand new. Barnes also has better facilities than we do. Tn. recently built a new practice facility. Howland is in his fourth year. He made the NIT last year which was year 3. Avery made it to the tournament year 3 and won a game. They are both in year 4 so lets wait a few weeks before crowning Howland. Davis has a Brand new Arena. You seeing a pattern here. Much like Oregon in football their turn around started when Phil Knight started pouring money in to their facilities. Just ask yourself this and be honest. Would you trade Howlands record for Avery's? Howland is a good coach but if you are looking at resumes from day one till today Avery's is just flat out better against a harder out of conference schedule to boot.

    Also if he keeps this up at a minimum we are looking at the tournament every 3 years. on TideFans.com
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  12. #25
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystical View Post
    Pearl had the added benefit of having a new facility. Brand new. Barnes also has better facilities than we do. Tn. recently built a new practice facility. Howland is in his fourth year. He made the NIT last year which was year 3. Avery made it to the tournament year 3 and won a game. They are both in year 4 so lets wait a few weeks before crowning Howland. Davis has a Brand new Arena. You seeing a pattern here. Much like Oregon in football their turn around started when Phil Knight started pouring money in to their facilities. Just ask yourself this and be honest. Would you trade Howlands record for Avery's? Howland is a good coach but if you are looking at resumes from day one till today Avery's is just flat out better against a harder out of conference schedule to boot.

    Also if he keeps this up at a minimum we are looking at the tournament every 3 years. on TideFans.com
    If you are happy with 17-20 wins per year, max. Enjoy. Stop making excuses. Yes, a new arena would be great. Does that magically make a coach coach better? Does that magically make a coach hold his players accountable? Does that magically make a coach demand players take care of the ball? We want to commend Avery for the great recruiting, but here you are saying he is handcuffed bc of facilities. Which is it? Nobody is answering my questions. Where would you rank Avery as a bball coach in the SEC right now? 1-5, 6-10, or 11-14? If it is in the 11-14 category, a change is needed. 6-10, a change should be considered if he is on the lower side. Which coaches would you rank below Avery right now?

  13. #26
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    Re: I now feel the exact same way I did three years before Gottfried was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by linniepatrick View Post
    I have never said Avery isn't a better coach than Grant or Gottfried. I hated Gottfried. But, I just think in year four we should be showing better improvement.
    I didn't say you said they were better. You said this is continuing the mediocrity of Alabama basketball. I simply pointed out Avery's record is against better competition, so imagine how they would do. If Avery's continuing the mediocrity they had against weaker competition but doing it against better competition, logic says they would be worse.

    There's a reason Alabama went dancing last year at 19-15 and Anthony Grant didn't in 2011 after winning 21 games.

    Oh, and my number of posts is totally irrelevant. I have been a huge basketball fan since 1981. Maybe that is part of my issue. I saw it when things were significantly better.
    Missing the point. You joined months ago and decided to start a negative thread after two losses and haven't posted anything else? Didn't care to post about the wins over Arizona or Kentucky?

    Again, look at the product on the floor. Does he hold his players accountable for effort? Does he allow carelessness with the basketball? Routinely. What is our strategy on defense? What is our strategy on offense? What are we known for? You bring up Davis. Great, he inherited a better situation. What about Pearl? Auburn was consistently the worst program in the SEC for thirty years. SOS is great. I commend him for creating difficult schedules. He is better against top competition than Grant. Big deal. Grant is not and should not be the standard. What about the other losses? What about blowing a twenty point lead to freaking Georgia State? You can get all the talent you want, if you do not develop it, what good is it? Is Herb Jones better today than last year? Absolutely not. He has regressed offensively. Is Petty better? What about Ingram? LOL! Reese appears to have improved some so has Hall when we bother to get him involved in the offense. Smith showed promise at the end of last season, where is he this year?
    This is more of what I'm talking about in regards to an argument. Those questions are worth discussing and asking because they are legitimate concerns.
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    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
    -- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

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