The Tax Thread

TIDE-HSV

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I actually like this type if tax write off if the plane was built in America. It produced money for an American company and was a business expense for this man. When they allow them to right off Chinese planes I have a problem because that does not encourage people to spend money in America.
IDK if it belongs here, but NPR had a guy on this AM who manufacturers sporting equipment somewhere in the Midwest, one of the few left. He uses American steel. When they slapped the tariffs on foreign steel, domestic steel skyrocketed in price. It's being a powerful incentive for manufacturers to move production offshore, something economists predicted and Trump and advisors ignored...
 

CharminTide

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Is it safe to assume that those of you who want more taxes paid are simple filing with no itemization or deductions? Or do you pay extra, since the government needs more funding?
That's a pretty silly question, and you know it.

Since you asked, I have repeatedly supported higher taxes on folks at my income level. I'm not going to fight the people who keep voting me a tax break, but I don't think that kind of upward redistribution is good for our country.

I think you're presenting a false choice when you imply we can't simultaneously discuss tax policy AND federal spending. Frankly, I get pretty frustrated when someone uses the latter to shut down any discussion of the former. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think we're fully capable of doing two things at once. I do recognize the political reality that wasted tax dollars ends up being highly profitable for the lobbyists and donors most of our politicians answer to. So if you actually want to address both spending and taxation simultaneously, we should all back the candidates who have made it their primary agenda to end (or limit, realistically speaking) the influence of money in our political system. That rules out the entire GOP and 2/3rds of the Democratic party, but this issue will actually be on the board for 2020 (at least during primary season). If it's important to you, as it is to me, that's probably the best chance we'll have in our lifetimes to actually do something about it.
 

crimsonaudio

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The way I understood it, from talking to him, was that he wrote off the cost of the plane as a deduction, not that he didn’t pay “income” taxes on the money he used to pay for it.
I’m not sure how the deduction worked, but regardless, not paying taxes on money you used to buy the plane (again, that’s not the way he explained it to me, but Earle might understand it fully, all I know is that it’s no longer available) is different from not paying taxes on money you use to buy a car how, exactly?
A deduction simply means that the government allows you to not pay taxes on an item as it's being used for some purpose, such as business. He didn't get the plane for free - that's not how write-offs work.
 

TIDE-HSV

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The way I understood it, from talking to him, was that he wrote off the cost of the plane as a deduction, not that he didn’t pay “income” taxes on the money he used to pay for it.
I’m not sure how the deduction worked, but regardless, not paying taxes on money you used to buy the plane (again, that’s not the way he explained it to me, but Earle might understand it fully, all I know is that it’s no longer available) is different from not paying taxes on money you use to buy a car how, exactly?


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The government didn't pay for the whole plane. It just made it cheaper to own by reducing his overall income tax burden. Also, not knowing the exact period, it's difficult for me to predict the impact of section 179, which allows writing off the entire purchase in the year of purchase. The amount this applies to has been adjusted upwards for many years. This last year, it went up from a half million to a full million for planes. That will cover a lot of income...
 

twofbyc

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FTR, since some don’t know where I stand:
I’m for no deductions of any kind, as they are all either direct or indirect subsidies of industry. I think everyone should pay the tax required by the bracket they fall into; and no, I don’t think the wealthy should have access to deductions that the non-wealthy don’t.
How so very unfair of me...


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twofbyc

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A deduction simply means that the government allows you to not pay taxes on an item as it's being used for some purpose, such as business. He didn't get the plane for free - that's not how write-offs work.
Didn’t answer my question.


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crimsonaudio

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That's a pretty silly question, and you know it.
Of course, it was rhetorical, as I know it's almost always about other people paying more in taxes.

Since you asked, I have repeatedly supported higher taxes on folks at my income level. I'm not going to fight the people who keep voting me a tax break, but I don't think that kind of upward redistribution is good for our country.
That's the point - in principle you think it's a good idea that you pay more, but you won't unless you're forced to.

I think you're presenting a false choice when you imply we can't simultaneously discuss tax policy AND federal spending.
I never said we couldn't do both, I just find it interesting that the 'tax others more' threads are always much longer and more involved than the 'cut FedGov spending' threads (if they exist at all). We need both, but without the reduction in spending, most of us don't want to hear a peep about how much more we should be paying to fund the drunken wastefulness.

It's insane to me that people are so vitriolic in their discussion of people and corporations working to avoid taxation while essentially giving themselves a pass for the same thing and rarely, if ever, discussing reducing the government's need for cash. Heck, the overlap between those who want others to 'pay their fair share' and those who want universal health care is nearly 1:1, and yet...
 

twofbyc

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The government didn't pay for the whole plane. It just made it cheaper to own by reducing his overall income tax burden. Also, not knowing the exact period, it's difficult for me to predict the impact of section 179, which allows writing off the entire purchase in the year of purchase. The amount this applies to has been adjusted upwards for many years. This last year, it went up from a half million to a full million for planes. That will cover a lot of income...
It would have been around 2003.
Was it an itemized deduction(i.e., “business expense”)?


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crimsonaudio

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Didn’t answer my question.
It's not any different than not paying income taxes on the value of the car, as you asked - which is why (and how) businesses everywhere buy their vehicles. Just as a corporate vehicle isn't 'free', the dentist's plane wasn't 'free'. That's entirely the point of the tax code - to help businesses and to encourage spending.
 
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CharminTide

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That's the point - in principle you think it's a good idea that you pay more, but you won't unless you're forced to.
Um, no. I'm asking for it. But we both know it's futile for one soldier to storm the battlefield alone. Which is why your refrain of "if you like the government so much why don't you write them more checks, huh?" is obtuse and unproductive.

I never said we couldn't do both, I just find it interesting that the 'tax others more' threads are always much longer and more involved than the 'cut FedGov spending' threads (if they exist at all). We need both, but without the reduction in spending, most of us don't want to hear a peep about how much more we should be paying to fund the drunken wastefulness.
For me, it's because these threads consist exclusively of people complaining, with no mitigating ideas being presented. The "listen to Bodhi complain about things" thread is a good example. The reality is that the federal government is absurdly efficient at some things -- the administration of Medicare is far more efficient than administrative overhead in private insurance companies. At the same time, buying toner that never gets used doesn't help anyone but HP. So does the inefficiency relate primarily to purchasing, and not actual program administration? Maybe. But that kind of nuance is never discussed in those threads, which is probably why they don't get much traction from some of us. Too much "moar gubment = bad" knee jerking makes for nonproductive dialogue. IMO.
 

92tide

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Um, no. I'm asking for it. But we both know it's futile for one soldier to storm the battlefield alone. Which is why your refrain of "if you like the government so much why don't you write them more checks, huh?" is obtuse and unproductive.



For me, it's because these threads consist exclusively of people complaining, with no mitigating ideas being presented. The "listen to Bodhi complain about things" thread is a good example. The reality is that the federal government is absurdly efficient at some things -- the administration of Medicare is far more efficient than administrative overhead in private insurance companies. At the same time, buying toner that never gets used doesn't help anyone but HP. So does the inefficiency relate primarily to purchasing, and not actual program administration? Maybe. But that kind of nuance is never discussed in those threads, which is probably why they don't get much traction from some of us. Too much "moar gubment = bad" knee jerking makes for nonproductive dialogue. IMO.
this is one of the many reasons i didn't listen to neal boortz for very long.
 

TIDE-HSV

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It would have been around 2003.
Was it an itemized deduction(i.e., “business expense”)?


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Believe it or not, it's important whether the plane was bought in 2003 or prior. The 179 deduction went up from $100K to $135K during the year. Yes, it was an "above the line" or business expense. He's classifying the other office as his "secondary business location," thereby avoiding the commuting exclusion...
 

rjtide

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Um, no. I'm asking for it. But we both know it's futile for one soldier to storm the battlefield alone. Which is why your refrain of "if you like the government so much why don't you write them more checks, huh?" is obtuse and unproductive.



For me, it's because these threads consist exclusively of people complaining, with no mitigating ideas being presented. The "listen to Bodhi complain about things" thread is a good example. The reality is that the federal government is absurdly efficient at some things -- the administration of Medicare is far more efficient than administrative overhead in private insurance companies. At the same time, buying toner that never gets used doesn't help anyone but HP. So does the inefficiency relate primarily to purchasing, and not actual program administration? Maybe. But that kind of nuance is never discussed in those threads, which is probably why they don't get much traction from some of us. Too much "moar gubment = bad" knee jerking makes for nonproductive dialogue. IMO.
Agree. The truth is usually somewhere in between. There has to be some combination of tax reform in terms of scaling back deductions/reforming the tax code plus federal govt spending cutbacks. Just raising taxes or cutting govt spending alone won’t do the trick I don’t think. As far as taxes I’m of the opinion that if an individual makes >150k per year or a family makes >275k per year those tax brackets should be revised upwards by 2.5% or so as far as federal taxes are concerned. And we should have a national value added tax of 1% on everything and every svc that is purchased/transacted on. As far as the federal govt is concerned I would propose a 2.5% across the board cut in spending.....for each and every federal agency except homeland security, NIH and FDA.....freeze those agencies’ budgets at 2018 levels for 5 years. I’d be curious to know what our national fiscal situation would be at the end of the 5 year period.
 

crimsonaudio

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Um, no. I'm asking for it. But we both know it's futile for one soldier to storm the battlefield alone. Which is why your refrain of "if you like the government so much why don't you write them more checks, huh?" is obtuse and unproductive.
It seems to me that if everyone clamoring for higher taxes voluntarily gave them they’d not only help the issue they but they could also show it to be an effective solution, as they claim.


For me, it's because these threads consist exclusively of people complaining, with no mitigating ideas being presented.
In that case I’d love to see you jump into that thread and share ideas on how we can shrink government spending, as about all I see from you is how to squeeze more money out of those already paying the vast majority of the tax revenue.
 

MattinBama

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In that case I’d love to see you jump into that thread and share ideas on how we can shrink government spending, as about all I see from you is how to squeeze more money out of those already paying the vast majority of the tax revenue.
Not addressed to me but I’ve shared stories and potential ideas in similar threads over the years several times. I’d be surprised if Charmin hasn’t as well. Congress never rang me up though, maybe slate.com can pass it on for me if I try again? lol
 

Bodhisattva

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It seems to me that if everyone clamoring for higher taxes voluntarily gave them they’d not only help the issue they but they could also show it to be an effective solution, as they claim.




In that case I’d love to see you jump into that thread and share ideas on how we can shrink government spending, as about all I see from you is how to squeeze more money out of those already paying the vast majority of the tax revenue.
The government spends money like a retarded crack head with a stolen credit card. And many ignore that and say some other guy needs to be taxed more. The retarded crack head appreciates their support.
 

92tide

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Not addressed to me but I’ve shared stories and potential ideas in similar threads over the years several times. I’d be surprised if Charmin hasn’t as well. Congress never rang me up though, maybe slate.com can pass it on for me if I try again? lol
the obama admin started a lot of initiatives to cut costs and improve efficiency in the federal government. if only he wouldn't have been so arrogant and made everything about himself, maybe we would have been able to appreciate those more.
 

Bodhisattva

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the obama admin started a lot of initiatives to cut costs and improve efficiency in the federal government.
I've never seen any improvement in the way the government spends money. In fact, the layers of bureaucracy have only increased since I've been here. Many times I've seen a policy filter down that basically says, "in order to make things more efficient we've mandated extra layers of review or additional documentation or whatever." People who work in government contracting must have MBAs, but no efficiency lessons one learns in b-school are ever used. I (and everyone else) have gone to Lean Six Sigma training. We have the certificate, but no lessons are ever implemented. All that was accomplished was to waste my time and taxpayer money. Government is not efficient and can't be. The best that can be done is limit the role of government to shrink the waste.
 

92tide

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I've never seen any improvement in the way the government spends money. In fact, the layers of bureaucracy have only increased since I've been here. Many times I've seen a policy filter down that basically says, "in order to make things more efficient we've mandated extra layers of review or additional documentation or whatever." People who work in government contracting must have MBAs, but no efficiency lessons one learns in b-school are ever used. I (and everyone else) have gone to Lean Six Sigma training. We have the certificate, but no lessons are ever implemented. Government is not efficient and can't be. The best that can be done is limit the role of government to shrink the waste.
you should release a paper with your findings.
 

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