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Thread: The Tax Thread

  1. #14

    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    I absolutely agree that spending and income are both variables in this equation, and you can't ignore either one if you actually want to solve it.

    My issue with the starve the beast solution is that it only hurts poor people.
    Indeed, it's not a good solution at the extreme. I'm not suggesting government shutdown, I'm simply saying giving congress more money when they've (collectively) shown no interest in attacking our over-spending and borrowing is silly to me. Show me a budget that actively fights wasteful spending, eliminates deficit spending, and starts attacking the national debt and I'm all for paying more, even though I make far less than $10 million annually.
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  2. #15
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    I have nothing to add but just wanted to pop in and say keep up the good discussion. There's been some good ideas and thoughts expressed and I'm enjoying reading it.
    The existence of God isn't determined in the thoughts of man. God exists, no matter what man thinks.

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  3. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Indeed, it's not a good solution at the extreme. I'm not suggesting government shutdown, I'm simply saying giving congress more money when they've (collectively) shown no interest in attacking our over-spending and borrowing is silly to me. Show me a budget that actively fights wasteful spending, eliminates deficit spending, and starts attacking the national debt and I'm all for paying more, even though I make far less than $10 million annually.
    A thoughtful, reasoned discussion of priorities and the feasibility of cutting seems impossible in today's political climate. Gone are the days where constitutional justification is needed to burden taxpayers with a permanent and growing obligation. All it seems to take now is a bunch of likes and retweets. The question is whether we can move on from Idiocracy to something better than Wall-E.
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  4. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I have nothing to add but just wanted to pop in and say keep up the good discussion. There's been some good ideas and thoughts expressed and I'm enjoying reading it.
    i think slab mentioned it the other day, most of us probably have a fairly significant overlap in basic values/concepts.
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  5. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    A thoughtful, reasoned discussion of priorities and the feasibility of cutting seems impossible in today's political climate. Gone are the days where constitutional justification is needed to burden taxpayers with a permanent and growing obligation. All it seems to take now is a bunch of likes and retweets. The question is whether we can move on from Idiocracy to something better than Wall-E.
    i don't think that is the necessarily the case. i think more folks are getting to have a say in what constitutes thoughtful and reasoned and that can be messy for sure.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  6. #19
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    I have no problem with the 70% bracket on the mega rich. It also needs to come with some closing of loopholes, stiffer enforcement and protection against tax evaders.

    But I do agree that we need a major overhaul across the board in a lot of places.

    Not only how much the government spends but how the government spends need to be overhauled. For one- government/military operations should not be being punished for coming in under budget. Millions (who am I kidding, billions) is wasted every year in a last minute mad spending dash to use up the operational budget so that they don't have their budget slashed the following year. They may not have needed their full budget that year, but they might need it the next year and so they spend away to make sure someone doesn't cut them - and you end up buying new desks, chairs, etc every single year when it is not needed. Coming in under budget should be celebrated and incentivized.

    We also need stricter enforcement on white collar crime. One thing trials like the Manafort trial shows is how often the rich get away with this stuff while a poor person gets the book thrown at them for ounces of drugs or other minor crimes. Millions upon millions of dollars could be brought back into the system by actually enforcing laws and keeping more people honest.

    I know we're all taxed pretty badly currently and a lot of the government is wasteful and inefficient etc but my opinion is that if we're going to spend the ridiculous amounts we do on the military then we should also be able to afford social programs that much of the rest of the free world enjoys. I don't think the goal should just be "screw the government because it's wasteful" but rather "let's fix the government from being so wasteful."

    Unfortunately most of the billionaires want the government right where it's at because they can control it and turn that wastefulness to line their pockets. Hence the ever widening wealth gap.

  7. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    I have no problem with the 70% bracket on the mega rich. It also needs to come with some closing of loopholes, stiffer enforcement and protection against tax evaders.

    But I do agree that we need a major overhaul across the board in a lot of places.

    Not only how much the government spends but how the government spends need to be overhauled. For one- government/military operations should not be being punished for coming in under budget. Millions (who am I kidding, billions) is wasted every year in a last minute mad spending dash to use up the operational budget so that they don't have their budget slashed the following year. They may not have needed their full budget that year, but they might need it the next year and so they spend away to make sure someone doesn't cut them - and you end up buying new desks, chairs, etc every single year when it is not needed. Coming in under budget should be celebrated and incentivized.

    We also need stricter enforcement on white collar crime. One thing trials like the Manafort trial shows is how often the rich get away with this stuff while a poor person gets the book thrown at them for ounces of drugs or other minor crimes. Millions upon millions of dollars could be brought back into the system by actually enforcing laws and keeping more people honest.

    I know we're all taxed pretty badly currently and a lot of the government is wasteful and inefficient etc but my opinion is that if we're going to spend the ridiculous amounts we do on the military then we should also be able to afford social programs that much of the rest of the free world enjoys. I don't think the goal should just be "screw the government because it's wasteful" but rather "let's fix the government from being so wasteful."

    Unfortunately most of the billionaires want the government right where it's at because they can control it and turn that wastefulness to line their pockets. Hence the ever widening wealth gap.
    and they spend billions on propaganda convincing people that this constitutes liberty and freedom.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.

    — Thomas Pynchon

  8. #21
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i don't think that is the necessarily the case. i think more folks are getting to have a say in what constitutes thoughtful and reasoned and that can be messy for sure.
    I can remember when America was great; can any of you?
    I can remember when:
    Anyone who wanted to work could get a job - and most gave “merit” raises every year (you know, “real” raises, not these COLA’s that keep your wages stagnant)
    There was no health insurance - you just went to the doctor or hospital, and paid them what you could when you could
    Colleges (public) were free in several states, to residents of those states
    We built the greatest highway system in the world
    Top tax rate was well north of 50%
    Now, it’s like the wealthy built this great big cruise liner we all live on, but they refuse to maintain it; they’ll put fuel in it but that’s it. it’s all on us now, all the maintenance and upkeep. They got huge tax cuts that they are pocketing, and we can either sink or swim.
    We had all these things; they were real. Now, some people suddenly forget how we got here and think we can go forward like this.
    Sad, at times mind numbingly ignorant, yet this is who we’ve become.
    Pogo was right.


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  9. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    I hesitate to join this discussion because of my loathing of the federal government, but will ask this as a start. What is the real funding responsibility of the federal government beside providing for the defense of the country and its citizens? That is my starting point.
    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

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  10. #23
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    One thing for sure, the current tax/spending structure is unsustainable.

  11. #24
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTide View Post
    I hesitate to join this discussion because of my loathing of the federal government, but will ask this as a start. What is the real funding responsibility of the federal government beside providing for the defense of the country and its citizens? That is my starting point.
    Well, when you tax someone their entire life and tell them that if they pay these taxes you will provide them a monthly paycheck and some form of health insurance when they retire then you owe them that. I am not saying it was originally the government's job bit they made it their job when they decided to take money from people and now they cannot stop.

  12. #25
    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    I agree with you on the payments for social security and medicare after all we did pay into or 40-50 years or more. The more I have thought about all of this, it seems most of what they do could be done at the state level, but what do I know.
    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

    "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

  13. #26
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTide View Post
    I agree with you on the payments for social security and medicare after all we did pay into or 40-50 years or more. The more I have thought about all of this, it seems most of what they do could be done at the state level, but what do I know.
    If they were to delegate it to the states then the difference between Alabama and New York would be ridiculous. I think alot of other programs besides social security would be hard to get rid of not because the federal government is necessary but because they have existed for so long they are basically built into the U.S. economy. Ending them would cause a major shock and huge consequences. Maybe if they took a gradual approach with alternate programs to ease the pain...
    Last edited by uafanataum; January 15th, 2019 at 10:10 PM.

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