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Thread: The Tax Thread

  1. #66
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    correct, there are a lot of folks who can't follow relatively simple instructions and do basic math.
    Absolutely.

    It's still too complicated though, in my opinion.

    And, if nothing else, I'm pretty good at math. In fact, I got 9 math credit hours when I enrolled in college from my entrance exams.

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  3. #67
    BamaNation Hall of Fame DzynKingRTR's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I agree...would be fantastic.

    What are the chances of something like that ever happening though?

    Getting back to the tax discussion - I can see both sides.

    My biggest gripe is how complicated our tax code is.

    Seems like if you need an accountant to do your taxes for you - something is wrong.
    I have always done my own taxes. My grandmother was an accountant and taught me. Granted nowadays I end up having to pay in April rather than get a refund. Refunds are dumb anyway. The government is not giving you money, they are giving you your money that they have kept all year and you don't even get interest charged. My taxes have gotten increasingly harder to do as well with IRA, stocks, money market accounts, and I make a whole lot more than I did.

    Oh and tax is theft.
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  4. #68
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Seems like we'd save a lot of money if there were an agency that reviewed itemized expenses from previous years, accounted for use and excess, and then audited the itemized budget proposal for the following year. Enact some form of punishment for over- or under-budgeting beyond a certain threshold and allow these auditors to request justification for unusual purchases, especially in Q4. A lot of work, but this kind of thing seems like a necessary step. Bet it would more than pay for itself.
    There are already mechanisms in place to do this. The problem is getting those in positions of authority to actually put them into action. The problem isn't lack of business processes or internal controls/oversight. The problem is the culture and mindset that exist within government employment. There was a time I (and others within my department) would bring to the attention of those in position of authority to do something about the waste I saw running through the grants I deal with. Scanned copies of invoices emailed to them showing them the waste and irresponsible spending. One time I even went above people's heads in an effort to get somebody to do something, only to realize I was wasting my time.
    Last edited by Bamabuzzard; January 17th, 2019 at 01:57 PM.
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  5. #69
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rolltide_21's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Oh, I agree - we've been using a progressive system basically since the beginning of income tax here in the US. I've no problem with that, but I think some who oppose this feel as if that high of a percentage is unfair, regardless of the astronomical income level that's required to reach it or the fact that they will never be affected by it.

    I'm more in the second camp - unless / until we make changes to how congress spends money, I'd rather starve the beast than find ways to feed it more money to waste.
    Amen. Well said. Probably not a good analogy, but I don't give money to people who constantly find themselves in need/broke when their plight is due to their financial recklessness/misbehavior. Im not helping them. I'm enabling them and exacerbating the problem. That's how I feel about raising tax revenue on anyone right now. And even new blood politicians like Ocasio-Cortez don't make me feel better about the situation either. My perspective is subject to change but I doubt that it does any time soon in the current climate of politics.

    ETA- I understand there is good spending. Im not suggesting starving the government of revenue, but that I proceed with extreme caution increasing revenue without also addressing spending extremes in some sectors of the government (i.e., defense).
    Last edited by rolltide_21; January 17th, 2019 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #70
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rolltide_21's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles17 View Post
    I could get behind something similar to this - at least be willing to listen - if and only if the middle class get substantial tax relief. That would be more in line with the original income tax.

    ETA: It would also help in moving the wealth back to the middle class.
    Good point. I agree.

  7. #71
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    I think there are two conversations going on, and one is far more abstract/difficult than the other. I think we'd do better to uncouple the question, "how much money does the government need/deserve?" from the question of tax bracket structure.

    So, assuming that the net tax revenue doesn't change, do people think that the current tax bracket architecture is fair/acceptable, or would folks advocate a return to a more progressive system, where each tier in someone's overall income is taxed at progressively higher rates. All things being equal, this should result in a tax reduction for most current tax brackets, although the degree of tax relief at each level would depend on whether your tax curve is linear, logarithmic, whatever.

    Here's a cool interactive calculator that shows the historic inflation-adjusted tax rates throughout the 1900s and early 2000s.

    https://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/

  8. #72
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    I think there are two conversations going on, and one is far more abstract/difficult than the other. I think we'd do better to uncouple the question, "how much money does the government need/deserve?" from the question of tax bracket structure.

    So, assuming that the net tax revenue doesn't change, do people think that the current tax bracket architecture is fair/acceptable, or would folks advocate a return to a more progressive system, where each tier in someone's overall income is taxed at progressively higher rates. All things being equal, this should result in a tax reduction for most current tax brackets, although the degree of tax relief at each level would depend on whether your tax curve is linear, logarithmic, whatever.

    Here's a cool interactive calculator that shows the historic inflation-adjusted tax rates throughout the 1900s and early 2000s.

    https://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/
    There is really only one answer, a more progressive structure. We just saw the effect of enacting a less progressive structure.

  9. #73
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    There is really only one answer, a more progressive structure. We just saw the effect of enacting a less progressive structure.
    I agree. The problem of wealth inequality was kicked into overdrive with Reagan and his "simplification" of the tax code. It's still something that the GOP likes to talk about (see Trump/Ryan's "do your taxes on a postcard" dance), but it's really only ever simplified taxes for the rich, and it's pure donorspeak. Reagan compressed the top and low end of the tax code so the impoverished paid more, and someone making 10 million suddenly found themselves in the same bracket as someone making 100k.

  10. #74
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    I agree. The problem of wealth inequality was kicked into overdrive with Reagan and his "simplification" of the tax code. It's still something that the GOP likes to talk about (see Trump/Ryan's "do your taxes on a postcard" dance), but it's really only ever simplified taxes for the rich, and it's pure donorspeak. Reagan compressed the top and low end of the tax code so the impoverished paid more, and someone making 10 million suddenly found themselves in the same bracket as someone making 100k.
    yeah simplification and a more progressive structure are not mutually exclusive. a more progressive rate structure does not lead to more complexity.
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  11. #75
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I agree...would be fantastic.

    What are the chances of something like that ever happening though?

    Getting back to the tax discussion - I can see both sides.

    My biggest gripe is how complicated our tax code is.

    Seems like if you need an accountant to do your taxes for you - something is wrong.
    There have been way too many tax laws written for special interests. I mean on both sides of the equation funding and loopholes. It's all about buying votes....

  12. #76
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Pretty decent read regarding the decades of stagnation of middle class wages. However, I will say if you google this topic you'll get all kinds of opinions and statistics to prove or disprove just about everything under the sun regarding middle class wages.



    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...d-for-decades/
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  13. #77
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    Pretty decent read regarding the decades of stagnation of middle class wages. However, I will say if you google this topic you'll get all kinds of opinions and statistics to prove or disprove just about everything under the sun regarding middle class wages.



    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...d-for-decades/
    One thing that can be proven: they havenít kept up with the real cost of living.
    Another thing that can be proven: the gap between them and the upper class income is wider than its ever been.
    The reasons for it are only debatable if theyíre politicized; in reality itís pretty simple.


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  14. #78
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The Tax Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by twofbyc View Post
    One thing that can be proven: they haven’t kept up with the real cost of living.
    Another thing that can be proven: the gap between them and the upper class income is wider than its ever been.
    The reasons for it are only debatable if they’re politicized; in reality it’s pretty simple.


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    You got that right.
    The existence of God isn't determined in the thoughts of man. God exists, no matter what man thinks.

    "It cost a lot of money to look this cheap."-Dolly Parton.

    "If you ever want to know how good your barbecue is start charging for it"-Myron Mixon

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