The Tax Thread

bama_wayne1

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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...0-million-poorest_us_5c60f627e4b0eec79b250c34

The Really Rich are getting richer!

Zucman’s study, “Global Wealth Inequality,”
released last month, also found that the 400 richest Americans tripled their wealth since the early 1980s
The share of the nation’s wealth held by the adults in the bottom 60 percent, meanwhile, dropped from 5.7 percent in 1987 to 2.1 percent in 2014, the Post reported, citing the World Inequality Database that’s maintained by Zucman and other economists.
“U.S. wealth concentration seems to have returned to levels last seen during the Roaring Twenties,” Zucman wrote. And as “wealth begets power” the political system is impacted, he noted.
So your telling me that people who do well with money still do....imagine that.
 

92tide

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Aye, we missed the mark badly. Could have been worse, could have owed that much. BTDT, though.
we had a year like this a couple of year's back. caught us totally by surprise. we were able to get everything set up to where the last couple of years have been pretty close to "breaking even" on tax day. no idea what we have in store this year with all of the changes. we are sending everything out next week to the accountant to see.
 

CharminTide

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I admit to not having known about this particular loophole. It's clear that the Republican party's central legislative priority seems to be ensuring that the superwealthy do not have to pay taxes like the rest of the peasantry.

If it weren’t for the estate tax, the majority of the superwealthy’s money would never be taxed

[The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities claims that] 55 percent of the assets held by households worth $100 million or more haven’t actually been taxed before being subject to the estate tax.

Let’s repeat that for emphasis: If it weren’t for the estate tax, the majority of the super-rich’s money would never be taxed at all.

How is this possible? The answer has to do with how we do — and don’t — tax capital gains. Now, the first thing to understand is that any increase in the value of your stocks, bonds or real estate is only taxed when you sell them. But what if you don’t? What if you just hold on to them, and eventually pass them on to your kids instead? Well, in that case, you — or, more accurately, they — stand to benefit from one of the biggest loopholes in the entire tax code. The way it works is that it’s not your gains that are taxed, but rather theirs. So let’s say, for example, that you had stock that went from being worth $10 million when you bought it to $100 million by the time you left it to your children. Your heirs wouldn’t owe any capital gains tax on that original $90 million increase — which you also didn’t pay any on — but only on any subsequent increases. This is what’s known as “stepped-up basis,” and, as you could probably guess, it overwhelmingly benefits the rich. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, for its part, estimates that the top 1 percent receive 21 percent of its total money from it, with the next 9 percent getting 34 percent themselves.
 

92tide

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I admit to not having known about this particular loophole. It's clear that the Republican party's central legislative priority seems to be ensuring that the superwealthy do not have to pay taxes like the rest of the peasantry.

If it weren’t for the estate tax, the majority of the superwealthy’s money would never be taxed

but the fact that they have so much wealth to begin with shows that they are just smarter than everyone else. why should they be punished.
 

CharminTide

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If only we'd known.

1/11/2018: IRS rolls out new tax withholding tables to align paychecks with tax law

Workers should soon see changes in their paychecks after the government on Thursday released so-called withholding tables explaining to employers how to align people’s paychecks with the new tax law... The administration is asking employers to implement the new tables by Feb. 15 [2018] so that workers will begin seeing the effects of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act by next month.

The release comes amid warnings from Democrats that the administration could use the obscure tables to juice people’s paychecks this year, by withholding less from their pay, ahead of this year’s midterm elections. That could endanger the refunds people expect to get next year.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin called the charges “ridiculous” on Thursday and said the share of people receiving refunds should remain unchanged.
 

CharminTide

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Interesting.

Bernie Sanders wants to save Social Security by raising taxes on people making more than $250,000


Sen. Bernie Sanders has a plan to add more than 50 years of sustainability to Social Security, the New Deal-era program that's facing a looming cash crunch...

To pay for it, Sanders would subject all income above $250,000 to the existing 12.4% Social Security payroll tax, which is split between workers and employers. Currently, the payroll tax is only applied to wages up to $132,900.

Plus, the senator would levy a new 6.2% tax on single people with investment income above $200,000 and couples above $250,000.
The article is terribly written. I haven't seen the actual proposal text, but I read this as eliminating the current SS tax on income up to 133k and re-applying it exclusively to income above 250k.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Interesting.

Bernie Sanders wants to save Social Security by raising taxes on people making more than $250,000




The article is terribly written. I haven't seen the actual proposal text, but I read this as eliminating the current SS tax on income up to 133k and re-applying it exclusively to income above 250k.
So the first 249,999.99 of wages would be exempt from SS tax? Or is the proposal to increase the limit on wages subject to SS tax from 133K to 250K?



Edit: I found my answer in the article

To pay for it, Sanders would subject all income above $250,000 to the existing 12.4% Social Security payroll tax, which is split between workers and employers. Currently, the payroll tax is only applied to wages up to $132,900.
Plus, the senator would levy a new 6.2% tax on single people with investment income above $200,000 and couples above $250,000.
 
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CharminTide

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So the first 249,999.99 of wages would be exempt from SS tax? Or is the proposal to increase the limit on wages subject to SS tax from 133K to 250K?
Eh, I'm still not sure. Even Sanders' website isn't clear to me:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/strengthen-and-expand-social-security/

It talks about the current cap, then "lifting the cap" to include anyone making over 250k (which makes me think people still pay the current SS tax), but he just never acknowledges any plan for the large income gap between those two numbers. But maybe there isn't one. It could be that he didn't want to be seen as adding any "new" taxes to middle class families and simply picked 250k as a politically expedient threshold for new taxation.

It's still poorly worded.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Eh, I'm still not sure. Even Sanders' website isn't clear to me:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/strengthen-and-expand-social-security/

It talks about the current cap, then "lifting the cap" to include anyone making over 250k (which makes me think people still pay the current SS tax), but he just never acknowledges any plan for the large income gap between those two numbers. But maybe there isn't one. It could be that he didn't want to be seen as adding any "new" taxes to middle class families and simply picked 250k as a politically expedient threshold for new taxation.

It's still poorly worded.
The bill simply raises the cap and levies an additional tax of 6.2% (which is coincidentally the same amount as the employee portion of SS payroll tax) on single people with investment income over $200,000, married $250,000.



To pay for it, Sanders would subject all income above $250,000 to the existing 12.4% Social Security payroll tax, which is split between workers and employers. Currently, the payroll tax is only applied to wages up to $132,900.
Plus, the senator would levy a new 6.2% tax on single people with investment income above $200,000 and couples above $250,000.
 
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CharminTide

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The bill simply raises the cap and levies an additional tax of 6.2% (which is coincidentally the same amount as the employee portion of SS payroll tax) on single people with investment income over $200,000, married $250,000.
No, I don't think so. "All income over 250k" means there is no cap on the tax, only a base.

The investment income tax is more straightforward.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I admit to not having known about this particular loophole. It's clear that the Republican party's central legislative priority seems to be ensuring that the superwealthy do not have to pay taxes like the rest of the peasantry.

If it weren’t for the estate tax, the majority of the superwealthy’s money would never be taxed

The loophole has been there since the earliest days of the income tax. It was repealed briefly in 1976 but then the repeal was repealed retroactively the same year. There are powerful interests in favor of keeping it, the real estate industry, for one. Not only is there general revulsion for taxes exacted upon death, it would affect many, many more people than the estate tax ever reached. The history of it is linked below in an ABA monograph, if you like thick reading... :)

Basis
 
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CharminTide

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The loophole has been there since the earliest days of the income tax. It was repealed briefly in 1976 but then the repeal was repealed retroactively the same year. There are powerful interests in favor of keeping it, the real estate industry, for one. Not only is there general revulsion for taxes exacted upon death, it would affect many, many more people than the estate tax ever reached. The history of it is linked below is an ABA monograph, if you like thick reading... :)

Basis
Thanks for reminding me why I studied science instead of law. ;)
 

Bamabuzzard

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No, I don't think so. "All income over 250k" means there is no cap on the tax, only a base.

The investment income tax is more straightforward.
That's how I originally read it. But taking into account how badly worded it is, my guess is that was intended to leave room for refinement and changes without coming across as if he lied or back tracked. So my interpretation is more of how I think the bill will ultimately be, than currently reads. I'm trying to figure out the purpose of leaving $117,100 exempt. Then putting a 6.2% tax on "investment income" above $250K. Which currently there is already a 3.8% tax on investment income based on filing status and AGI. There seems to be a lot left to be worked out regarding this bill.
 

twofbyc

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Poorly worded and written - but very clear from Bernie’s past speeches on the topic. He proposed eliminating the cap altogether.
I don’t know where this 250,000 came from; I know there was an issue addressing investment income vs salary income, and that seems to be addressed here.
I never knew why there ever was a cap - except maybe the wealthy complained they would never get back what they paid in.
Cry me a river. Most wealthy folks I know have most of their income via investments anyway. A couple who aren’t even retired yet have minimal salaries.


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