Should I Start Caring/Watching Again?

teamplayer

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I follow Alabama basketball with casual interest, but the same can be said for OSU basketball. I just can't get excited about regular season basketball when the post season has 68 teams. Honestly, any team that is a "bubble" team has no chance of winning a title, but watching them in the playoff is still kinda cool. But watching bubble teams struggle through the regular season just isn't.

That said, you are better in both recruiting and on-court play than you have been in decades. Title contenders? That is a totally different story. You are not going to win the way that Kentucky wins because you do not land enough top 20 players to sustain when you lose guys after one or two seasons. And you are not going to win the way that the mid-majors win because you will never have a roster full of players with 5 years in your system because you are starting to land one or two of the top guys every year, and those guys leave early and cause continual roster disruption. The way that you are trying to win is an almost impossibility. You are going to have to capture lightening in a bottle one year to have a shot (same with OSU).

So, you have to watch knowing that it isn't all about winning. That is hard to do for an Alabama fan given the success of your football program.
I think you nailed it. There have been times when I really wished that we would start taking the mid-major approach. I enjoy watching those teams that take care of the ball with solid ball handling and passing. They shoot well. They defend well. They make free throws. Basically, they play fundamentally sound basketball. I enjoy watching that. I don't care if a guy can touch the top of the backboard if he can't hit a free throw or make a decent pass. Now, if you can get guys who have great athletic ability to also play fundamentally sound ball, you can consistently compete for championships. That is one of the things that is so great about Coach Saban in football. I hope Coach Johnson can get these guys to pay more attention to the details in order to be more consistent.
 

BamaMoon

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I think you nailed it. There have been times when I really wished that we would start taking the mid-major approach. I enjoy watching those teams that take care of the ball with solid ball handling and passing. They shoot well. They defend well. They make free throws. Basically, they play fundamentally sound basketball. I enjoy watching that. I don't care if a guy can touch the top of the backboard if he can't hit a free throw or make a decent pass. Now, if you can get guys who have great athletic ability to also play fundamentally sound ball, you can consistently compete for championships. That is one of the things that is so great about Coach Saban in football. I hope Coach Johnson can get these guys to pay more attention to the details in order to be more consistent.
I know it's not the 80's anymore, but Wimp always had the kind of balance on his teams that made us a tough out. While we had some great athletes, we also had guys like Gotfried and Farmer who were fundamentally sound and who could shoot the rock.

I wish CAJ would always have a couple of guys who might not be the best athletes, but had ball and shooting fundamentals that could be solid contributers.

However, I do think in today's game, you also have to have the one and dones too. Hopefully he gets the right formula to provide these kind of solid teams.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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I think you nailed it. There have been times when I really wished that we would start taking the mid-major approach. I enjoy watching those teams that take care of the ball with solid ball handling and passing. They shoot well. They defend well. They make free throws. Basically, they play fundamentally sound basketball. I enjoy watching that. I don't care if a guy can touch the top of the backboard if he can't hit a free throw or make a decent pass. Now, if you can get guys who have great athletic ability to also play fundamentally sound ball, you can consistently compete for championships. That is one of the things that is so great about Coach Saban in football. I hope Coach Johnson can get these guys to pay more attention to the details in order to be more consistent.
Those mid-major programs also tend to be senior-laden. Grant tried to go that route, but he didn't do well with it.
 

B1GTide

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Those mid-major programs also tend to be senior-laden. Grant tried to go that route, but he didn't do well with it.
I agree, but you also had some of the worst injury luck that I have ever seen when he was your coach. It was crazy to watch player after player go down. You get one guy back and two more get injured.
 

TiderJack

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I follow Alabama basketball with casual interest, but the same can be said for OSU basketball. I just can't get excited about regular season basketball when the post season has 68 teams. Honestly, any team that is a "bubble" team has no chance of winning a title, but watching them in the playoff is still kinda cool. But watching bubble teams struggle through the regular season just isn't.

That said, you are better in both recruiting and on-court play than you have been in decades. Title contenders? That is a totally different story. You are not going to win the way that Kentucky wins because you do not land enough top 20 players to sustain when you lose guys after one or two seasons. And you are not going to win the way that the mid-majors win because you will never have a roster full of players with 5 years in your system because you are starting to land one or two of the top guys every year, and those guys leave early and cause continual roster disruption. The way that you are trying to win is an almost impossibility. You are going to have to capture lightening in a bottle one year to have a shot (same with OSU).

So, you have to watch knowing that it isn't all about winning. That is hard to do for an Alabama fan given the success of your football program.
The championship mentality kicked in strong when Florida won a couple of NC's a decade or so ago and we started thinking if Florida can do it we can do it since our b'ball tradition was better then UF. Then in 2017 we had 3 teams in the Elite Eight and South Carolina went to the Final Four. I do feel like in a somewhat perfect storm scenario there is a chance at a championship.

I was around during the CM and Wimp days and we had some teams during this era that had a chance to win it all and I am hoping it can happen again.
 

teamplayer

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Those mid-major programs also tend to be senior-laden. Grant tried to go that route, but he didn't do well with it.
Grant did teach defense, but his teams didn't seem to do very well with turnovers or shooting the ball or passing, so I don't think I would compare them to that mid-major approach. You are absolutely correct about mid-majors being senior-laden, though. Usually those teams have a pretty good sophomore year that perhaps ends up in the NIT, a NCAA junior year in the round of 32, and then a sweet 16 or elite 8 run when the core group are seniors. If CAJ could get everyone in the program to play sound basketball and add a few of those NBA level guys, we could be a yearly NCAA threat like we used to be. If we make the NCAA three out of four years and have a sweet 16 appearance, that would be pretty solid. I would love to make a final four run, but we need to worry about getting the consistency first, in my opinion.
 

teamplayer

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The championship mentality kicked in strong when Florida won a couple of NC's a decade or so ago and we started thinking if Florida can do it we can do it since our b'ball tradition was better then UF. Then in 2017 we had 3 teams in the Elite Eight and South Carolina went to the Final Four. I do feel like in a somewhat perfect storm scenario there is a chance at a championship.

I was around during the CM and Wimp days and we had some teams during this era that had a chance to win it all and I am hoping it can happen again.
I don't know how Wimp never took a team further than the sweet 16. He had some great teams during those days. We always seemed to get matched up against the hot team or the "sentimental darling" of the tournament. We had several of those teams that were serious final four threats but never got there.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Grant did teach defense, but his teams didn't seem to do very well with turnovers or shooting the ball or passing, so I don't think I would compare them to that mid-major approach. You are absolutely correct about mid-majors being senior-laden, though. Usually those teams have a pretty good sophomore year that perhaps ends up in the NIT, a NCAA junior year in the round of 32, and then a sweet 16 or elite 8 run when the core group are seniors. If CAJ could get everyone in the program to play sound basketball and add a few of those NBA level guys, we could be a yearly NCAA threat like we used to be. If we make the NCAA three out of four years and have a sweet 16 appearance, that would be pretty solid. I would love to make a final four run, but we need to worry about getting the consistency first, in my opinion.
That's why I said he tried but didn't do well with it.
 

linniepatrick

Suspended
Aug 13, 2018
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I don't know how Wimp never took a team further than the sweet 16. He had some great teams during those days. We always seemed to get matched up against the hot team or the "sentimental darling" of the tournament. We had several of those teams that were serious final four threats but never got there.
Bad luck too often. We gave UNC in '82 all they could handle. A couple questionable calls, of course, went the Tarheels way down the stretch. Our best final four opportunity was in 1987. But, we had to run into Billy the Kid and Providence. I will also contend the team that lost to South Alabama in the first round in '89 or '90 when the refs basically decided at halftime to give the game to USA would have contended for a final four spot. The loss to Loyola Marymount was also frustrating because I would have loved to see our athletic team match-up with that juggernaut UNLV squad to see who went to the final four. For whatever reason, Wimp always seemed to be one player short from taking that next step.
 

dayhiker

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Bad luck too often. We gave UNC in '82 all they could handle. A couple questionable calls, of course, went the Tarheels way down the stretch. Our best final four opportunity was in 1987. But, we had to run into Billy the Kid and Providence. I will also contend the team that lost to South Alabama in the first round in '89 or '90 when the refs basically decided at halftime to give the game to USA would have contended for a final four spot. The loss to Loyola Marymount was also frustrating because I would have loved to see our athletic team match-up with that juggernaut UNLV squad to see who went to the final four. For whatever reason, Wimp always seemed to be one player short from taking that next step.
That South Alabama one hurt bad. I just remembering the feeling of being totally dumbounded. I don't think I'd heard the name Ronnie Arrow before then, and hadn't heard it since until we visited their campus last fall. His portrait was hanging in their coliseum.
 

linniepatrick

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Aug 13, 2018
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That South Alabama one hurt bad. I just remembering the feeling of being totally dumbounded. I don't think I'd heard the name Ronnie Arrow before then, and hadn't heard it since until we visited their campus last fall. His portrait was hanging in their coliseum.
I didn't get to watch the game because I was in high school at the time (I think). All I got to see was Arrow hitting the shot from the timeline at the buzzer. Ansley was so dominant in the first half. Then, like I said, the refs decided to foul him out as early as possible in the second half. Very frustrating.
 

dayhiker

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I didn't get to watch the game because I was in high school at the time (I think). All I got to see was Arrow hitting the shot from the timeline at the buzzer. Ansley was so dominant in the first half. Then, like I said, the refs decided to foul him out as early as possible in the second half. Very frustrating.
I would have been a junior in hs. I remember seeing the game. It must have occurred in what was then AEA week.
 

TideEngineer08

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Jun 9, 2009
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I don't know how Wimp never took a team further than the sweet 16. He had some great teams during those days. We always seemed to get matched up against the hot team or the "sentimental darling" of the tournament. We had several of those teams that were serious final four threats but never got there.
We never made it past the sweet 16 until Mark Gottfried's elite 8 run in what, 2004? CM Newton's 1976 team may have been Alabama's best team ever. It gave Indiana's 32-0 team it's closest game in the tournament, but the tournament was only 32 teams back then.

edited: I misread your post. I thought you asked if Wimp made it past the sweet 16. My bad.
 
Last edited:

CajunCrimson

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Mar 13, 2001
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Bad luck too often. We gave UNC in '82 all they could handle. A couple questionable calls, of course, went the Tarheels way down the stretch. Our best final four opportunity was in 1987. But, we had to run into Billy the Kid and Providence. I will also contend the team that lost to South Alabama in the first round in '89 or '90 when the refs basically decided at halftime to give the game to USA would have contended for a final four spot. The loss to Loyola Marymount was also frustrating because I would have loved to see our athletic team match-up with that juggernaut UNLV squad to see who went to the final four. For whatever reason, Wimp always seemed to be one player short from taking that next step.
We never had enough depth during many of those runs. Wimp stubbornly stuck to 7-8 man rotations. And often our guys just fatigued out

The Marymount loss was the toughest. Melvin had a ball that just refused to go in. Great game. But bad end of it
 

linniepatrick

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Aug 13, 2018
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We never had enough depth during many of those runs. Wimp stubbornly stuck to 7-8 man rotations. And often our guys just fatigued out

The Marymount loss was the toughest. Melvin had a ball that just refused to go in. Great game. But bad end of it
Yep. Wimp always seemed to be one player short on his roster. I could be wrong, but I believe the NCAA wouldn't clear Hollywood his freshman year until like January. Wimp made the decision to just go ahead and hold him out the entire season. Had he been eligible from day one, that could have been the difference. I think that was the season we lost the heart breaker to Marymount. I still remember Fryer running his mouth before the game. Alabama was holding opponents to something like 61 points per game. Fryer said something to the effect of "we will have that by halftime." We held them to 62. To your point, looking at that box score, we played 7 players the entire game.
 

imauafan

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I didn't get to watch the game because I was in high school at the time (I think). All I got to see was Arrow hitting the shot from the timeline at the buzzer. Ansley was so dominant in the first half. Then, like I said, the refs decided to foul him out as early as possible in the second half. Very frustrating.
Arrow was the USA coach. I forget the guards name that hit the shot. Before that shot there was kicked ball that reset the shot clock which gave them the opportunity to hit that shot. Had it not been for that, assuming they still would have hit the shot, we would have had time to get the ball down court for a final shot. That team was red hot late in the year and I'm convinced we would have beat Michigan (eventual national champion) in round 2 had we beaten USA in round 1.
 

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