Politics: 2020 Dem POTUS candidate catch all discussion thread

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B1GTide

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Does this sink Bloomberg? A lot of PDJT detractors who believe he is racist will have a hard time reconciling this, I imagine.
Against Trump, a known racist - no. But it will hurt him in trying to win the nomination.
 

B1GTide

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Bernie proposes a frac ban

This I assume is to drive the green new deal, which is a technically infeasible program
Of the major dem candidates, Sanders and Warren both propose a fracking ban. The other major dem candidates propose reform of one kind or another.

Fracking is a huge environmental concern.

Here is a great page for this kind of data: Where Democrats Stand
 

crimsonaudio

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Again, it only appears strong because of a trillion dollar yearly deficit. Dems need to somehow get this across!
To be fair, the dems have added ridiculous amounts to the deficit as well - Obama dded $8.588 trillion, a 74% increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

I get that there are circumstances whereby people rationalize the debt, but neither party can act as if they've been debt friendly - they've both continually kicked the can down the road, spending ever more annually in order to maintain power. Heck the big 'sell' Obama supporters were proud of was that he reduced the annual deficit. Didn't eliminate it, but reduced it. That's like bragging that you're spending more than you take in but at least you're not doing it as badly as you were last year...SMH
 

B1GTide

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To be fair, the dems have added ridiculous amounts to the deficit as well - Obama dded $8.588 trillion, a 74% increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

I get that there are circumstances whereby people rationalize the debt, but neither party can act as if they've been debt friendly - they've both continually kicked the can down the road, spending ever more annually in order to maintain power. Heck the big 'sell' Obama supporters were proud of was that he reduced the annual deficit. Didn't eliminate it, but reduced it. That's like bragging that you're spending more than you take in but at least you're not doing it as badly as you were last year...SMH
No one cares about tomorrow. That is our children's problem. 🤑
 

CrimsonRuss

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Define Democrat, because Bernie is not one, and his supporters are definitely not either. Bernie supporters I know have for the last 4 year been complaining about a fixed primary more than what Trump has done to America.
Why does Bernie scare you so much? Honest question, not trying to start an argument.
 

Bazza

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The prospect of Bloomberg as a dark horse interests me. He is a three term New York City Mayor so has a track record of winning elections and overseeing the largest city in the USA. Add to that his wealth and ability to self-fund his campaign. I also feel he is an accomplished speaker - and along those lines - when he speaks regarding politics - he goes way past the usual political mumbo-jumbo we hear from the typical candidate.

If you have the time....this is a good interview representative of what you are getting with the candidate Mayor Bloomberg. It's dated September 23, 2018.

 
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B1GTide

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The prospect of Bloomberg as a dark horse interests me. He is a three term New York City Mayor so has a track record of winning elections and overseeing the largest city in the USA. Add to that his wealth and ability to self-fund his campaign. I also feel he is an accomplished speaker - and along those lines - when he speaks regarding politics - he goes way past the usual political mumbo-jumbo we hear from the typical candidate.

If you have the time....this is a good interview representative of what you are getting with the candidate Mayor Bloomberg. It's dated September 23, 2018.

Bloomberg will struggle with a few groups, but IMO he is the most electable candidate of the group. I know that others here disagree with me there.
 
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Go Bama

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Why does Bernie scare you so much? Honest question, not trying to start an argument.
Why does Bernie scare you so much? Honest question, not trying to start an argument.
I’ve seen estimates that Medicare For All would cost 34 trillion over 10 years. There are 160 million in the workforce. The math says each worker will accrue a debt of $212,500 for the 10 years, or $21,500/ year.

Even if the figure is cut in half, it’s a large risk.

Add free college for all.

Add student loan debt forgiveness.

Add costs of cleaning the environment. These costs will not be avoidable.

Add possible reparations for slavery.

What scares me about both Warren and Sanders is the staggering amount of money with which they are willing to burden the average American worker.
 

CrimsonRuss

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I’ve seen estimates that Medicare For All would cost 34 trillion over 10 years. There are 160 million in the workforce. The math says each worker will accrue a debt of $212,500 for the 10 years, or $21,500/ year.

Even if the figure is cut in half, it’s a large risk.

Add free college for all.

Add student loan debt forgiveness.

Add costs of cleaning the environment. These costs will not be avoidable.

Add possible reparations for slavery.

What scares me about both Warren and Sanders is the staggering amount of money with which they are willing to burden the average American worker.
Per several studies that have been done on Medicare for all, we as a country actually save money to the tune of 3-5 trillion over 10years compared to the same costs of our current health care system which doesn’t cover everyone. So cover everyone an save money, seems like a no brainer to me... don’t recall Bernie ever saying anything about reparations maybe your thinking about Tom Steyer?
 
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Blueguitar

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Can't speak for anyone else, but the only thing that scares me about Sanders is the fact that he has no chance of beating Trump. This election is all about getting Trump out of office for me. I have no other agenda.
Exactly. I can't picture any realistic scenario where Bernie wins. And if he did, he'd be just as divisive as Trump, but for different reasons. Most likely scenario if Bernie gets the nomination is that Trump wins reelection easily, Republicans increase their majority in the Senate and possibly retake the House. None of which I want to see happen.
 

B1GTide

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I’ve seen estimates that Medicare For All would cost 34 trillion over 10 years. There are 160 million in the workforce. The math says each worker will accrue a debt of $212,500 for the 10 years, or $21,500/ year.

Even if the figure is cut in half, it’s a large risk.

Add free college for all.

Add student loan debt forgiveness.

Add costs of cleaning the environment. These costs will not be avoidable.

Add possible reparations for slavery.

What scares me about both Warren and Sanders is the staggering amount of money with which they are willing to burden the average American worker.
Actually, the funding for the Sanders/Warren healthcare idea is already being spent. They propose to stop those premium payments (Warren wants to make them optional) and shift that money to taxes which would pay for this.

In other words - it wouldn't cost the average guy with healthcare any more, and possibly less, than they currently pay. It would provide healthcare for the 30+ million without any healthcare today. The wealthy would pay more as their taxes would go up beyond that which adds their healthcare costs, but I don't really give a crap about their "financial concerns".

This can be paid for without costing the average American a single cent more than they currently pay. You pay taxes instead of premiums.
 

NationalTitles18

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Per several studies that have been done on Medicare for all, we as a country actually save money to the tune of 3-5 trillion over 10years compared to the same costs of our current health care system which doesn’t cover everyone. So cover everyone an save money, seems like a no brainer to me... don’t recall Bernie ever saying anything about reparations maybe your thinking about Tom Steyer?
Sanders is not on board with them as such.

 
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Go Bama

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Per several studies that have been done on Medicare for all, we as a country actually save money to the tune of 3-5 trillion over 10years compared to the same costs of our current health care system which doesn’t cover everyone. So cover everyone an save money, seems like a no brainer to me... don’t recall Bernie ever saying anything about reparations maybe your thinking about Tom Steyer?
I generically answering your question. I’m all for Medicare for all if Bernie can pull it off exactly like he says. I have my doubts.

I don’t Bernie’s position on reparations. We’ll find out if he gets the nomination.

I’ll vote for Sanders if he’s the nominee.The things I mentioned make a lot of people nervous. Most would rather maintain a comfortable status quo so they would vote Trump over Sanders, IMO.
 
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92tide

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I generically answering your question. I’m all for Medicare for all if Bernie can pull it off exactly like he says. I have my doubts.

I don’t Bernie’s position on reparations. We’ll find out if he gets the nomination.

I’ll vote for Sanders if he’s the nominee.The things I mentioned make a lot of people nervous. Most would rather maintain a comfortable status quo so they would vote Trump over Sanders, IMO.
i'm not too worried about bernie getting too much of the more out there parts of his agenda passed. he's not exactly been effective as a senator getting translating ideas into policy.
 
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B1GTide

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i'm not too worried about bernie getting too much of the more out there parts of his agenda passed. he's not exactly been effective as a senator getting translating ideas into policy.
Exactly - even with a majority in the house and senate, he wouldn't get much past the legislature. But he won't be Trump. 🤡
 

chanson78

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Why does Bernie scare you so much? Honest question, not trying to start an argument.
Per several studies that have been done on Medicare for all, we as a country actually save money to the tune of 3-5 trillion over 10years compared to the same costs of our current health care system which doesn’t cover everyone. So cover everyone an save money, seems like a no brainer to me... don’t recall Bernie ever saying anything about reparations maybe your thinking about Tom Steyer?
Elections are not about details and plans. They aren't even about ideals for the most part. They are about passion. Trump got elected on the passion of those forgotten by the tech, service, and urban economies. He also benefitted from the passion of many people who feel as if Obama was an affront to everything they believed America stood for.

Bernie, while he will garner the passion for pragmatism, will be up against what is still largely the biggest passion of the US. People who are passionate against people getting something for free. Call it socialism, handouts, welfare, Americans by and large like to remain deluded that everyone who has made it did it by elbow grease and their own pluck and grit.

I don't think most people who actually understand the issues are necessarily against Bernie's plan. To actually understand Bernies plan and how it could work for everyone takes some measure of pragmatism. If you are pragmatic enough to see the benefits of some or all of Bernie's plan with regards to health care, then you are also going to be pragmatic enough to recognize that he is facing an uphill battle. There are far too many voters who have nothing better to do than to motivate their peers against socialism, which is to them is inherently the death of America and specifically Christian America.

I don't like to generalize, but I think that for the most part many Sanders die hards are of the younger generation. They didn't grow up under the threat of communism being used as the boogeyman to propel Americans to make sacrifices. They don't remember what it was like to fight against actual fascism. They have benefitted from social programs that many of the older generations feel are nothing but a waste.

Fundamentally, no matter how good the idea is if you can't energize people to get out and vote, then that candidate isn't a winner. Declaring that America is ready for Sanders based upon him losing the primary in 2016 because the DNC rigged it, and his numbers in 2020 showing broad Democrat support isn't proof that America as a whole is ready for Sanders.

I will say that if Sanders were to become the nominee, this year is likely his best chance to get elected purely because many will vote against Trump. However being a pragmatist, I don't think there are as many anti-Trump voters as there are anti-Socialist voters who will actually show up on Election Day.
 
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