Politics: 2020 Dem POTUS candidate catch all discussion thread

TIDE-HSV said:

So you think the SCOTUS would look exactly the same, for starters?

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No, I don’t think it would.

People don't seem to get this but the reason we have a third of the country max lording over us all is because the alternative does nothing to inspire a broad appeal progressive movement. Majority of Americans want the big things that Sanders and Warren champion but the mainline democrats will not commit to it. This is the difference between the GOP and DNP. When the GOP gets power they ram through their pet projects without hoping for c o n s e n s u s. DNP can't even ram things the majority wants down the minority's throat when they get power. So why show up for them on election day when the candidates that seem most likely to fight for popular agendas aren't there?


Might be that I'm right that centrism is just a middleman for fascism and the DNP is an enabler to our 40+ year backslide.

TIDE-HSV said:

So, I assume you will vote only for Bernie or stay home? Is that it?

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Short answer, Yes.

CrimsonRuss said:

How about Debbie W Schultz being fired as head of DNC. Or the many leaks that have come out about how Hillary was in control of the DNC during the 2016 Democratic Primaries or even Donna Brazil’s book which went into detail how Bernie got screwed over.... any of that ring a bell?

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Even though that was not what I was referring to... I guess I’ll indulge you. Bernie lost simply because he couldn’t win the Mid Atlantic and Southern vote. He got totally donkey punched into next year in those contests. He underperformed in the MW to say it gently and never really had a chance in the election with or without the suspected wrongdoing.

You and your TYT conspiracy friends can act like Bernie had a shot and was given a worse fate than Bret Hart during the Montreal hatchet job, but it still doesn’t change the fact that sitting at home and not voting didn’t do anyone that believes in democracy any favors.

But Bernie would’ve been destroyed by Trump. And the proof is in the pudding if you actually go look at the MW, MA, and South primaries vs Clinton and compare them with Trumps numbers.

rgw said:

People don't seem to get this but the reason we have a third of the country max lording over us all is because the alternative does nothing to inspire a broad appeal progressive movement. Majority of Americans want the big things that Sanders and Warren champion but the mainline democrats will not commit to it. This is the difference between the GOP and DNP. When the GOP gets power they ram through their pet projects without hoping for c o n s e n s u s. DNP can't even ram things the majority wants down the minority's throat when they get power. So why show up for them on election day when the candidates that seem most likely to fight for popular agendas aren't there?


Might be that I'm right that centrism is just a middleman for fascism and the DNP is an enabler to our 40+ year backslide.

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Are you seriously tempting me to quote Edmund Burke out of his original context about evil and the good men that did nothing? Lol

CrimsonRuss said:

Short answer, Yes.

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What state do you live in?


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TIDE-HSV said:

Great! Enjoy Trump...

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I honestly don’t think that’ll happen, we can agree to disagree. Bernie 2020

Crimson1967 said:

What state do you live in?


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Alabama

CrimsonRuss said:

Alabama

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Then it probably doesn't matter.

NationalTitles17 said:

Then it probably doesn't matter.

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Then why would one want to put energy in voting for Bernie if he was the nominee if it didn’t matter?

81usaf92 said:

Then why would one want to put energy in voting for Bernie if he was the nominee if it didn’t matter?

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My point being that one person has a chance to win Alabama, assuming he runs, and only that one person.

81usaf92 said:

Actually we have a really good idea of what Bernie would’ve done vs Trump. Clinton killed him in both the South and the MW by large margins. Bernie’s largest margin in states over 10 ECV was Washington. I don’t think the Democrats have real concern of losing Washington. Bernie’s best geographic area was the West, and his lowest was the South and Mid Atlantic. It is quite possible that Bernie might’ve won Michigan but it’s equally and actually more likely he also lost Virginia. I’m not so sure he wins Pennsylvania like folks think.

I’ve talked to some of the folks that had access to Trumps team and they all said that they all felt very confident had Bernie been the nominee and scared crazy had Biden jumped in last second.

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bernie would've made dukakis' run seem competitive.

81usaf92 said:

Then why would one want to put energy in voting for Bernie if he was the nominee if it didn’t matter?

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to have a shot at the hippie chicks?

TIDE-HSV said:

I wish you were correct, but history says that the weight of the US electorate is in the center, except in times of great national distress. That's what the elections say. Just look at the meatpole of losing progressives over the last 75 years. Do I need to enumerate them?

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Count me in as one of the middle. Someone that thinks that a progressive agenda can co-exist with a thriving economy. Protection of the environment, a meaningful solution to spiraling healthcare costs, enforcement of basic civil liberties for all.

But you are correct. Bernie would have been 2016's George McGovern.

In the final analysis everyone has to vote his/her conscience. My conscience will be clear because I will vote for any candidate the Dems nominate.

92tide said:

bernie would've made dukakis' run seem competitive.

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I have had heard it from a guy very close to Trump’s inner circle during the 2016 campaign ( this guy has actually been discussed on this board) say that they were hoping and praying Bernie got the nomination. Their reasoning was that they conducted their own polling east of the Rocky Mountains and found that the voting electorate was far more unsure of Bernie’s economic planning than of Trump’s and Clinton’s by a large margin. The trump team was well prepared to make the general election more about Bernie’s lack of meat to his plan than mud slinging. They were highly confident that they would’ve crushed Bernie by wider margins than Clinton and even possibly capture the popular vote. They weren’t so sure they could’ve beaten Clinton, Biden, or Gore but were highly confident in crushing Bernie

I’ve had a few less biased political science professors agree with that take and said Bernie’s campaign couldn’t have afforded to be vague as Trump’s mostly because his message is more specific than Trumps. He would’ve either looked like the biggest idiot to get elected to the senate trying to explain it or people in the Midwest and and Mid Atlantic would’ve moved on after seeing through the smoke and mirrors. They also agree that one of Clinton’s biggest missteps was probably not forcing Bernie to explain his issues in detail and stepping on his throat when he looked stupid doing it.

CrimsonRuss said:

How about Debbie W Schultz being fired as head of DNC. Or the many leaks that have come out about how Hillary was in control of the DNC during the 2016 Democratic Primaries or even Donna Brazil’s book which went into detail how Bernie got screwed over.... any of that ring a bell?

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Now - just as I'm always telling the Russian collusion folks......SHOW me where VOTES WERE CHANGED in the sense that Person A went into the ballot box and selected Bernie and someone changed it to HRC.

Because without that you have nothing that proves the narrative of a stolen election.

I have no doubt Russia wanted Trump to win and that their releases were designed to spin the election his way. But it's one thing to say that - it's another entirely to allege that they somehow changed votes from HRC to Trump after they were cast.


That didn't happen to Hillary in November, and it didn't happen to Bernie in the spring, either.

Hillary had the deck stacked at the DNC, yes. But she also got more votes, carried more states, and won more delegates.

And I'll remind you that the DNC was under no obligation to nominate a candidate who is an INDEPENDENT and not a Democrat.