Politics: 2020 Dem POTUS candidate catch all discussion thread

TIDE-HSV said:

For curiosity, do you agree with the following statement - "The most important goal in 2020 is to remove Trump from the White House." Or not?

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I think removing Trump in 2020 in favor of some of these people will just lead to an unabashed fascist the next time around or 8 years later. Fascism rises in the failure of liberalism. I think the type of Democrat that has been the President since the 90s has either just temporarily staved off the rise of fascism in this country or happily assisted the fascists along the way.


So, I guess the answer is no because I think the most important goal is to end fascism in this country not simply to paint over it for 4 to 8 years.

rgw said:

I think removing Trump in 2020 in favor of some of these people will just lead to an unabashed fascist the next time around or 8 years later. Fascism rises in the failure of liberalism. I think the type of Democrat that has been the President since the 90s has either just temporarily staved off the rise of fascism in this country or happily assisted the fascists along the way.


So, I guess the answer is no because I think the most important goal is to end fascism in this country not simply to paint over it for 4 to 8 years.

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If Trump is a true fascist then he is the most moronic and ineffective one of all time.

TIDE-HSV said:

So, then, you prefer Trump over which Democratic candidates?

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I think for most fringe Bernie fans that would be more preferable.

TIDE-HSV said:

I believe you're correct and they are, therefore the second most important danger to the Republic, after Trump...

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I just hope they remember, Julius Caesar wasn’t the one who brought down the republic; it was Augustus, Anthony, and Lepidus who did because inpatient men couldn’t sacrifice their pride to make a rational decision of bringing them back to a republic.

Point is Trump is the beginning not the end of these cults of personality winning presidency. If these people don’t wake up to this then we will probably keep rolling out these autocrat wannabes until one actually makes us a true military dictatorship or empire

rgw said:

I think removing Trump in 2020 in favor of some of these people will just lead to an unabashed fascist the next time around or 8 years later. Fascism rises in the failure of liberalism. I think the type of Democrat that has been the President since the 90s has either just temporarily staved off the rise of fascism in this country or happily assisted the fascists along the way.


So, I guess the answer is no because I think the most important goal is to end fascism in this country not simply to paint over it for 4 to 8 years.

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fascism rises when people vote for fascists. it's been happening here for quite a while.

81usaf92 said:

I just hope they remember, Julius Caesar wasn’t the one who brought down the republic; it was Augustus, Anthony, and Lepidus who did because inpatient men couldn’t sacrifice their pride to make a rational decision of bringing them back to a republic.

Point is Trump is the beginning not the end of these cults of personality winning presidency. If these people don’t wake up to this then we will probably keep rolling out these autocrat wannabes until one actually makes us a true military dictatorship or empire

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he's not really the beginning this has been coming for a while. thankfully for us, he's not very bright and neither are the idiots he's surrounding himself with or we would be in real trouble.

92tide said:

he's not really the beginning this has been coming for a while. thankfully for us, he's not very bright and neither are the idiots he's surrounding himself with or we would be in real trouble.

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He is the beginning of some power hungry maniac actually assuming power, but I agree this movement isn’t new.

92tide said:

he's not really the beginning this has been coming for a while. thankfully for us, he's not very bright and neither are the idiots he's surrounding himself with or we would be in real trouble.

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I believe there’s a change in weather, and I think it changes both ways,” he told Morgan. “Don’t forget, it used to be called global warming, that wasn’t working, then it was called climate change, now it’s actually called extreme weather.”

At least he has a clearly defined climate change policy which is more than I can say for the liberal Dems

Trump is more of a front man not too dissimilar to Reagan. Trump is a puppet who acts like he's the puppeteer. It is the cabinet, department heads, agency directors, and Mitch McConnell shrewd dismantling of the Senate that are the problems here.

Edit: Also, obviously every single DNP candidate is better than Trump. My criticism is that I fear many offer an ineffectual platform that will only further the disengagement of voters thus further radicalizing the remaining voter base. The "one after Trump" is my biggest fear and I think just how bad that one will be depends on how effective the next DNP president is at making a positive meaningful impact on people's lives.

rgw said:

Trump is more of a front man not too dissimilar to Reagan. Trump is a puppet who acts like he's the puppeteer. It is the cabinet, department heads, agency directors, and Mitch McConnell shrewd dismantling of the Senate that are the problems here.

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many of the folks doing the dirty work now, you can trace back to nixon. they were there through raygun, bush 1, bush the lesser, and now cheetolini. what's been removed is any attempt to keep it on the down low

We contracted the fascist virus long before Trump. That is one thing I think many - not necessarily here - seem to misunderstand about what is at stake. You could say it started with Nixon. Really, you could say that the German fascists looked at what we were doing here as a general template for some of their worst atrocities. As has been pointed out routinely here, we're a pretty right leaning nation and of course there were a fair bit of proto-fascist tendencies in this country as early as the 19th century.

We're going to have to cure this virus somehow and I don't think centrism liberalism with tax credits and private sector solutions to public good problems is the cure. Maybe we're just too right wing to be cured and what's going to happen is one day, possibly in many of our lifetimes, we're going to over-commit to one too many foreign interventions and our own foreign policy machismo finally results in our tails getting whipped and having an attitude adjustment as a nation. I fear that it will result with us all having required reading of Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics.

rgw said:

We contracted the fascist virus long before Trump. That is one thing I think many - not necessarily here - seem to misunderstand about what is at stake. You could say it started with Nixon. Really, you could say that the German fascists looked at what we were doing here as a general template for some of their worst atrocities. As has been pointed out routinely here, we're a pretty right leaning nation and of course there were a fair bit of proto-fascist tendencies in this country as early as the 19th century.

We're going to have to cure this virus somehow and I don't think centrism liberalism with tax credits and private sector solutions to public good problems is the cure. Maybe we're just too right wing to be cured and what's going to happen is one day, possibly in many of our lifetimes, we're going to over-commit to one too many foreign interventions and our own foreign policy machismo finally results in our tails getting whipped and having an attitude adjustment as a nation. I fear that it will result with us all having required reading of Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics.

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You do realize the real progressives in the early 19th century were high on the ideas of eugenics right, and Hitler was highly influenced by their ideas of a master race. So there are huge leftist ideas that influenced Hitler and the third Reich.

I don’t think you realize how and why Nazism rose in the first place. It really wasn’t a “virus” as much as a defibrillator bringing back a body that was near death. The German people mostly fought and rejected Nazism until it was a better option than the option they had. An option they were forced to take, not by a right leaning regime but by liberal powers that forced upon Germany a massive war debt that took nearly 100 years to pay off and a stock market crash.

You can blame Hitler and the far right for the atrocities that happened in WWII but you have to blame the Democratic socialists for WWII happening and Hitler rising to power.

Point is fascism only happens either in hard times or when the left has pushed too far left. I don’t see us being there... yet. Yes there are fascist ideas out there, but at this point they are no more influential than Bernie’s socialism. The real danger with Trump is that he could potentially set the field for a real fascist down the line to declare himself “emperor”, dictator, king, etc.

TIDE-HSV said:

I believe you're correct and they are, therefore the second most important danger to the Republic, after Trump...

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Even I would consider voting for the democratic nominee if I was in a state where it mattered.

TIDE-HSV said:

LOL!, so you left one state where your vote didn't matter for another where it doesn't...

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You are exactly right. That's part of the reason I can pick someone not in the two major parties and feel I'm doing more good/sending more of a message than I could voting for either/or. In a state where it mattered I might be more inclined to pick between the "lesser of two evils".

Let's face it though - in most states a single vote or 10,000 or 100,000 don't matter.