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  1. #14
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    It really matters of what you define "liberal". I think not all "liberals" are left, but all are probably not to the right. I think the common term associated with American Liberals in the modern day is far different from what Jefferson was.

    But what I think they are trying to get at in this article is a difference between a neo-liberal democrat and a regressive left liberal. Which yes there is a difference, but there is a difference between a neo-LIBERAL conservative and a trumper. So I'm really trying to see what the author's goal is other than to say "The looney left is the majority of the Democratic Party so you neo libs need to come to the "sane" side of the aisle because we share common goals".
    Daily Wire opinion piece with a transparent agenda? I am aghast.

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  3. #15
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Daily Wire opinion piece with a transparent agenda? I am aghast.
    Interesting.
    I defined the terms above. Do you dispute the definitions? If so, how?
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any daylight between the definition of a "liberal" and a "leftist?"

  4. #16
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Interesting.
    I defined the terms above. Do you dispute the definitions? If so, how?
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any daylight between the definition of a "liberal" and a "leftist?"
    I think Charmin was just saying the source isnít exactly defining the terms for educational purposes but rather for propaganda. I donít think it was addressing your definition.

  5. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Interesting.
    I defined the terms above. Do you dispute the definitions? If so, how?
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any daylight between the definition of a "liberal" and a "leftist?"
    What 81 said.

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    What 81 said.
    Okay, so do you dispute the definitions I provided? (I do not consider myself a leftist and nor would most liberal find much solidarity with my views.)
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any difference between the definitions of "leftist" and "liberal?"

  7. #19
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Okay, so do you dispute the definitions I provided? (I do not consider myself a leftist and nor would most liberal find much solidarity with my views.)
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any difference between the definitions of "leftist" and "liberal?"
    I think you are defining "liberal" as a classical liberal, and left as the far left of American and British politics. The problem is that excludes folks like the Clintons and Obamas who are neo liberals, and not Sanders and Corben "progressives". Point is there is a difference between the average CNN viewers and the average TYT viewers, and this article acts like the latter is the majority of the party which is false.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  8. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    I think you are defining "liberal" as a classical liberal, and left as the far left of American and British politics. The problem is that excludes folks like the Clintons and Obamas who are neo liberals, and not Sanders and Corben "progressives". Point is there is a difference between the average CNN viewers and the average TYT viewers, and this article acts like the latter is the majority of the party which is false.
    Thanks, but I think you are attributing to me the views of the guy in the opening post.
    I posted my definitions above.
    Here they are again, for the sake of argument.
    My personal view is that a "liberalism" is the political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty. (Encyclopedia Britannica) Liberals believe in the free exchange of ideas. Bad Ideas get rejected and tossed on the ash-heap of history.

    (Again, in my view), "left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism) as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice). The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system." (Oxford Dictionary).I as

    I was accepting, for argument's sake, the definitions of the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the Oxford Dictionary. Do you accept these definitions or not? If not, how would your definition differ?
    If you do accept these definitions, can you see any substantive difference between a "leftist" and a "liberal?"
    Last edited by Tidewater; February 7th, 2019 at 02:52 PM.

  9. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Okay, so do you dispute the definitions I provided? (I do not consider myself a leftist and nor would most liberal find much solidarity with my views.)
    If you accept the definitions, do you see any difference between the definitions of "leftist" and "liberal?"
    Respectfully, I wasn't responding to your post at all.

  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Respectfully, I wasn't responding to your post at all.
    Okay. But back to the point, did I (or Britannica) unfairly state the liberal position?
    Is the term "leftist" unfairly characterized in your view?

    Honestly I am not trying tetra you in some rhetorical trap. Just wanting to see if we can agree on the definitions as a point of departure.

  11. #23
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Thanks, but I think you are attributing to me the views of the guy in the opening post.
    No I'm not. I'm more saying its a more complex word because politics have evolved and the term has evolved with it. Point is Jefferson is way different than Carter, and Obama is way different than Carter yet all 3 were "liberals".
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  12. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    No I'm not. I'm more saying its a more complex word because politics have evolved and the term has evolved with it. Point is Jefferson is way different than Carter, and Obama is way different than Carter yet all 3 were "liberals".
    Which is why I did not mention Jefferson.
    Or Carter...
    Or Obama.

  13. #25
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Which is why I did not mention Jefferson.
    Or Carter...
    Or Obama.
    you didn't have to... The term has had too many interpretations over the last hundreds of years to definitively define "what is liberal?". Yes there are common beats, but there are very big differences depending on "when" you are talking about.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; February 7th, 2019 at 03:38 PM.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

    Hannibal

  14. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: The difference between Liberals and the left

    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

    "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

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