...Alabama...sigh...you've done it again

B1GTide

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While I agree with some of your points, doing the same thing over and over hasn't help our schools so far because folks in this state continue to elect idiots to the board.
Alabama's problems arise from things that simply cannot be overcome without better education, top to bottom. You have a chicken/egg thing happening here. You can't fix the state without education, but the people in power actually prefer an uneducated populace. It is like the middle east.
 
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81usaf92

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While I agree with some of your points, doing the same thing over and over hasn't help our schools so far because folks in this state continue to elect idiots to the board.
Yeah the same people elect dummies, but I still think it’s better for people to elect dummies than the governor deciding who the dummies are based on an agenda.
 

TIDE-HSV

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There are several Hebrew names for God -- with YHWH (no vowels in Hebrew -- you may know it as Jehovah) being the one God chose when asked by Moses "who do I tell them sent me?" This translates to "I am" or I am who I am, I will be who I will be...and other derivative interpretations... "Being" is one of them. Hebrews would not even say Yahweh (vowels included) for they considered it sacred and to even speak it aloud was to defame Yahweh. They would say "Adonai" (Lord) whenever they encountered Yahweh in the text.
Thus endeth the lesson!
Now you've done it. You've instructed them in how to really take the Lord's name in vain. :) Even in the Sh'ma, supposed to be the last words of every Jew ("Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one"), "Adonai" is used...
 
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B1GTide

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Best friend is Birmingham PD, Bazza.

Nathaniel Woods is not the hill you want to die on.
Two of the officers who were killed were dirty cops. The guy who killed the cops said that this guy had nothing to do with it. This is an ugly case. The whole state came out looking bad with this one. But I am from Ohio, so I try not to throw stones. We have our own problems.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Two of the officers who were killed were dirty cops. The guy who killed the cops said that this guy had nothing to do with it. This is an ugly case. The whole state came out looking bad with this one. But I am from Ohio, so I try not to throw stones. We have our own problems.
There are good test cases. This isn't one of them.

I oppose the death penalty in large part because of its arbitrary and capricious application, but none could argue that the punishment was not commensurate with the crime in this case. Nathaniel Woods was guilty as hell, and deserved to die.
 
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B1GTide

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There are good test cases. This isn't one of them.

I oppose the death penalty in large part because of its arbitrary and capricious application, but none could argue that the punishment was commensurate with the crime in this case. Nathaniel Woods was guilty as hell, and deserved to die.
The only two people who know are him and the actual killer, and they both said that he did not know. So, you believe he was guilty and he might have been guilty but we do not know. Killing a man for something that we cannot prove with absolute certainty is wrong, IMO.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
The only two people who know are him and the actual killer, and they both said that he did not know. So, you believe he was guilty and he might have been guilty but we do not know. Killing a man for something that we cannot prove with absolute certainty is wrong, IMO.
"On June 17, 2004, four Birmingham police officers went to the apartment of Nathaniel Woods, a known drug dealer, to issue a warrant of arrest. Unfortunately, only one of those officers lived to recount the horrendous assault upon him and his fellow officers.

As explained by the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals, the evidence showed that Woods was an integral participant in the intentional murder of these three officers. On the day the officers were killed, Mr. Woods talked to others about killing police officers; he taunted the officers and lured them into his apartment, where he knew they would be met by gunfire; he pointed the gunman to the third police officer; and he escaped with the gunman.

Each officer died of multiple gunshot wounds. Two officers were shot in the back and one in the head, and none of the officers had an opportunity to discharge return fire. In fact, one officer’s weapon was still holstered.

The state offered the testimony of 39 witnesses at Woods’ capital murder trial, including Officer Michael Collins, 25 other law enforcement officers, and forensic experts. There is no evidence, and no argument has been made, that Nathaniel Woods tried to stop the gunman from committing these heinous crimes. In fact, he later bragged about his participation in these horrific murders. As such, the jury did not view Woods’ acts as those of an innocent bystander; they believed that he was a fully engaged participant.

**A jury of Mr. Woods’ peers convicted him of four counts of capital murder. In the past 15 years, his conviction has been reviewed at least nine times, and no court has found any reason to overturn the jury’s decision.**

Under Alabama law, someone who helps kill a police officer is just as guilty as the person who directly commits the crime. Since 1983, Alabama has executed two individuals for being an accomplice to capital murder.
Nathaniel Woods was very much an integral part of this ambush, bloviating by the uninformed notwithstanding. Again, the idea of the state putting anyone to death sticks in my craw in the worst way, but holding this one up as a miscarriage of justice would be in error, and does more harm to the movement to end the death penalty than good.

The evidence from the trial.


>Woods continued to argue that he had “no papers,” i.e., that a warrant had not been issued. Officer Chisolm told him that he was under arrest and to step outside. Officer Collins testified that Woods told the officers that “f you come in here, we’ll **** you up.” Officer Collins testified that, all of a sudden, Woods turned and ran from the kitchen further into the apartment. Officer Chisolm grabbed the screen door, opened it, and followed Woods inside the apartment. Officer Owen then went into the apartment; Officer Collins followed behind him. None of the officers had their weapons drawn when they entered the apartment.

>...

>. Belser testified that, before the day of the shootings, he had heard Spencer say that he did not like the police, that he was tired of them harassing him, and that if they did not stop harassing him, he would “light them up,” meaning that he would shoot them. Belser also said that he had heard Woods make statements similar to those Spencer had made.

>...

>Belser said that Spencer opened fire on Officer Chisolm and Officer Chisolm tried to return to the kitchen. Belser did not look toward the kitchen anymore after Spencer began shooting but knew that Spencer fired several shots into the kitchen and out of the back of the apartment. Woods tried to go out of the front door, Belser said, but when Woods opened it, Woods told Spencer that they had “another one right there.”

>...

>Scott said that he turned and saw Woods and Spencer come through the back door of Prather’s house. Woods walked into the living room where Scott was standing. Woods was not coughing and he had no trouble breathing, Scott said; Scott also said that Woods had no tears and his nose was not running. Woods said, “They ****ed with the wrong n-----s. We shot their asses,”

>..

>William Powell, a Jefferson County deputy sheriff assigned to the jail, testified that when Woods was in jail on December 14, 2004, after the shootings in this case, he closed the door of Woods’s cell, and Woods called him derogatory names and then told him that he was “hiding behind [his] badge just like the other three mother ****ers.” Woods also told Deputy Powell that if he won his case and was released, he was going to come looking for him. Deputy Powell filed a report on the incident

>Deputy Vince Gillum testified that he was employed by the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office and that he was assigned to the jail. He stated that, on June 22, 2005, he observed contraband on the wall of Woods’s cell—a drawing pasted to the wall—so he removed it. The drawing was admitted into evidence, and we have examined it. The drawing depicts two men shooting firearms. One man is shooting an assault rifle and three flaming skulls are depicted in the blasts from that weapon, and the other man is shooting two handguns. The drawing contains a heading at the top, “NATE $ NOOKIE,” and depicts street signs at an intersection of “18th Street and Ensley.” When Deputy Gillum removed the drawing, Woods said that the drawing was his and that he wanted it back.

>Deputy Sheriff Tonya Crocker testified that she was also assigned to the jail and that on July 29, 2005, she searched Woods’s cell. She found some broken razors and some drawings that concerned her. After obtaining a search warrant, Deputy Crocker seized several items from the bunk where Woods slept. The items included a handwritten document and two copies each of two separate drawings depicting “Nate” and “Nookie” shooting on 18th Street. One of the drawings depicted flaming skulls coming from the blast of what appears to be an assault rifle and the other drawing depicted a police car with many bullet holes in it.

>...

>At the sentencing hearing on December 2, 2005, the State presented testimony from a resident of the area who had been near the gunfire and from Stacy Sellers, Chisholm’s widow, who had received a threatening letter from Woods after the trial stating, “I will forgive, but I won’t forget.” The defense offered testimony from Woods’s mother and from a family friend. After hearing the testimony, the court accepted the jury’s recommendation and sentenced Woods to death one week later.


Nathaniel Woods deserved to die. Find a better case to hold up as an example.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Capital punishment is pretty funny. Were I able to flip a switch and say "no more," I'd do it in a heartbeat.

But I'd have a very hard time flipping that switch if you presented me with "Carl the guy that quite obviously cooked and ate 100 babies" rather than some dude convicted on shaky evidence.

Test cases are a thing. Choose them wisely.
 

Crimson1967

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Capital punishment is pretty funny. Were I able to flip a switch and say "no more," I'd do it in a heartbeat.

But I'd have a very hard time flipping that switch if you presented me with "Carl the guy that quite obviously cooked and ate 100 babies" rather than some dude convicted on shaky evidence.

Test cases are a thing. Choose them wisely.
Pretty much how I feel. Woods may not have pulled the trigger, but he certainly had a role in killing the cops. It isn’t like he was just a casual acquaintance of the others who had dropped by to visit five minutes before it went down. If the governor had commuted him to life without parole because she believes all life is sacred, that’s fine, but I didn’t lose sleep over the execution.

I oppose the death penalty in general because there are innocent people on death row. I know it was fiction, but look at the movie The Shawshank Redemption. Andy had motive to commit the murders. He was in the area that night and owned a gun just like the one the killer used but said he threw it in the river. I can’t blame a jury for convicting him on that evidence.
 

Jon

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Pretty much how I feel. Woods may not have pulled the trigger, but he certainly had a role in killing the cops. It isn’t like he was just a casual acquaintance of the others who had dropped by to visit five minutes before it went down. If the governor had commuted him to life without parole because she believes all life is sacred, that’s fine, but I didn’t lose sleep over the execution.

I oppose the death penalty in general because there are innocent people on death row. I know it was fiction, but look at the movie The Shawshank Redemption. Andy had motive to commit the murders. He was in the area that night and owned a gun just like the one the killer used but said he threw it in the river. I can’t blame a jury for convicting him on that evidence.
I oppose because it costs more to kill someone than it does to let them rot forever and as far as I am concerned rotting is the far worse punishment
 

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