How would you rank the top 10 college football programs of all-time?

bamaga

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You got me curious so I looked it up in
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...art=1869&end=1960&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Wins

and in wins before 1960, Penn State is 17th with 382, Alabama 18th with 381. So Penn State would have had some very good teams before 1960.

According to: https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/college-football-national-championship-history they have national titles in 1911 and 1912.
I understand what you are saying, except that Penn State was a relative nobody until JoePa. In 1973 I believe , PSU went undefeated, 11-0 or 12- 0 and could only manage to get to #5 in the rankings. The early seventies built the Penn St brand into what it is today. Even today, what is it? They haven’t won anything since really the 1980’s and at the very latest 1994. BTW, PSU went to 3 bowl games before 1960 and winning one. That being the 1959 Liberty bowl 7-0 over Alabama.

ALABAMA started playing football in 1892, Penn st in 1887 . Plus, Alabama was terrible at football until about 1908 or 1910 or so. I don’t we had a winning season until 1906 .
 
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NoNC4Tubs

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That’s how I understood your post. Not how they would fare in a power 5 conference, but how they have fared historically at their level of competition.

Biased, but my top programs -
True Blue Bloods

ALABAMA
OKLAHOMA
USC
OHIO STATE
NOTRE DAME
NEBRASKA
MICHIGAN
TEXAS

NEXT TIER

PENN ST
MIAMI
FSU
AUBURN
FLORIDA
UT
Etc.
awbern?!? You totally whiffed on that one... :rolleye2:

They won NCs in 1957 and 2010. 1957 they were on probation for recruiting violations, so they used players that they had acquired by cheating. 2010 is well documented...
 
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deliveryman35

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I agree that they shouldn't be on the list. IMO there are only 8 blue blood teams:

Alabama
Notre Dame
USC
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Michigan
Texas
Nebraska

To qualify for my list, a team must have had powerhouses in multiple eras dating back to at least the 20s or 30s. This rules out teams like LSU, Penn State, FSU, Florida, and Miami, the last three of which only date back to the early 80s as powerhouse programs. Penn State dates to the early 60s I believe, and LSU dates to a few years earlier. If they continue to win over a few more decades they could make the list.

They also must have remained powerful pretty much down to the present day. If we were running this drill in the early 60s, I would have had Minnesota on the list, so obviously a team can't remain dormant for too long and continue to be a blue blood.
Using your own standards, both Oklahoma and Nebraska should be excluded. OU was not a national power until the 50s and Nebraska not until the 60s.
 
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TheRealPokeChop

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1. Bama (admitted bias but I dont care)
2. Oklahoma
3. Ohio State
4. USC
5. Notre Dame
6. Nebraska
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Florida
10 tie miami/FSU

Michigan just doesn't belong on this list.

Most wins ever but still have a losing record to Ohio state who they play every year and haven't beaten in a generation at this,point, and a stunning lack of national titles in thr,modern era, undefeated seasons or post season awards, and havr been only a marginal program since Eisenhower was president

They are auburn with snow. But aubies won a naty in this millennium
 
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81usaf92

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South Alabama
1. Bama (admitted bias but I dont care)
2. Oklahoma
3. Ohio State
4. USC
5. Notre Dame
6. Nebraska
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Florida
10 tie miami/FSU

Michigan just doesn't belong on this list.

Most wins ever but still have a losing record to Ohio state who they play every year and haven't beaten in a generation
Michigan owns the series by like 7 games. If you are talking about the last 20 years then I’ll remind you Auburn fans my age for years pointed out that Auburn owned Alabama from 1981 to just recently. Point is I don’t think using that kind of span to justify why a team is better than the other is wise especially when we don’t let teams like Auburn use it against us.
 

81usaf92

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You brought bama into it with your fl st comment.....
When you decided to say in season rankings don’t matter, and I basically said “ if you believe that then you must believe that FSU’s ranking vs Bama didn’t matter either”.

So no I never said anything close to NDSU being on a competitive level as Alabama....
 
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CoachInWaiting

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Nov 27, 2017
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The 'all time' thing makes this very difficult to do. Miami and Florida have no business on an 'all time' list. School like Army and Yale should most likely be on any list like this.

rtr
Couldn't agree more with this. I'm almost 60 years old, so in my lifetime (not even close to spanning a major chunk of college football history, btw) teams like Florida, Florida State, and Miami are newbies to the process. Florida didn't even win an SEC title until the mid 80's and that one was vacated by probation. Their real status as a football power didn't come along until 1990 with SOS. Maybe in the last 30-40 years, those guys have scratched their way into the picture, but they are still on the horizon unless the window begins after college football's first 100 years.
 

DzynKingRTR

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I didn't bring up NDSU and Mount Union from a standpoint of competing with those programs head to head. I agree with your comments especially if they had to play a full P5 schedule with their current rosters. I was just commenting on the success of the programs. Once you get outside the top 5 you are having a hard time finding a team without flaws. They could play that role from the standpoint of long term success at their level (NDSU at 2 levels). Both runs are incredible.

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If North Dakota State were to move up, they would be the new Boise State. They would win the Mountain West Conference and occasionally upset the one good team they would play. I honestly think they should stay right where they are. The get enough national exposure dominating the FCS. What they have done is unreal and impressive.
 

IndyBison

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If North Dakota State were to move up, they would be the new Boise State. They would win the Mountain West Conference and occasionally upset the one good team they would play. I honestly think they should stay right where they are. The get enough national exposure dominating the FCS. What they have done is unreal and impressive.
They currently play in a dome owned by the city that only seats 18,500 for football. The city doesn't need a bigger facility and not sure the state would allow the school to build another indoor facility elsewhere on campus. That also could limit them from moving up.

The issue with the Mountain West is the closest schools (Wyoming and Colorado State) are 800 miles away and in the opposite direction of their recruiting footprint. Most are much further. That would be like Alabama being in a conference with the closest teams being Nebraska, Michigan State, and Maryland. Geography is not their friend. The MAC is better with Northern Illinois being 600 miles but you still have Akron at 1000 miles and Buffalo at 1200 miles.

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NationalTitles18

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They currently play in a dome owned by the city that only seats 18,500 for football. The city doesn't need a bigger facility and not sure the state would allow the school to build another indoor facility elsewhere on campus. That also could limit them from moving up.

The issue with the Mountain West is the closest schools (Wyoming and Colorado State) are 800 miles away and in the opposite direction of their recruiting footprint. Most are much further. That would be like Alabama being in a conference with the closest teams being Nebraska, Michigan State, and Maryland. Geography is not their friend. The MAC is better with Northern Illinois being 600 miles but you still have Akron at 1000 miles and Buffalo at 1200 miles.

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Geography and demographics are real problems for a school/team like NDSU.

It's a problem for teams like Colorado and Utah and other PAC12 teams. The smaller schools have it even worse. Everything is the west is stretched far and wide.
 

IndyBison

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Geography and demographics are real problems for a school/team like NDSU.

It's a problem for teams like Colorado and Utah and other PAC12 teams. The smaller schools have it even worse. Everything is the west is stretched far and wide.
Those are also schools with significantly bigger budgets in Power 5 conferences. NDSU would have to build a new stadium on their own, double their operating budget (largely coaches salaries), and instead of playing for championships they would be playing for bowl spots in Boise and Detroit. That doesn't excite the alumni base. I wouldn't put the university or athletic department on the same level as the P5 public schools so don't ever see them going that route. They could be like Boise or UCF but that's where geography coffees into play again.

If NCAA went to a 16 or 32 team playoff where they would have a legitimate chance to make that playoff or G5 has their own playoff then it might be more interesting.

Fortunately their conference is still challenging and most years 2 or 3 of their playoff games are very competitive so nothing is guaranteed.

Based on how thinks are structured now the most logical choice is to stay where they are. But that landscape could change.

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BamaMoon

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In all honesty, this board is probably not the most objective place to rank the all time best programs.


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Bama fans can't be objective about Bama, but here's the thing, if any fanbase's discussion board had this same discussion, Bama would be on everybody else's list. IOW, we are about the only school that everybody has to admit is a blueblood with no questions asked.

awbern?!? You totally whiffed on that one... :rolleye2:

They won NCs in 1957 and 2010. 1957 they were on probation for recruiting violations, so they used players that they had acquired by cheating. 2010 is well documented...
And they weren't even "Auburn" in '57. They were API!:rolleye2:
 

owenfieldreams

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No problem there. It's a subjective list. That was one of the top dynasties of all time. If we were ranking those they'd be up there on my list, though with some reluctance considering how it was achieved.

My two problems with Miami are

1. All their NC's are within a 20 year window and that's it

2. Their win percentage is 0.63 with 622 wins all time, more than 200 less than UTe (the fewest on the list - both Princeton and Yale have more wins and win % than Miami)

Just stating my reasoning for keeping them off my list.
Before Schnellenburger ( sp? ) showed up The U was about to drop football. The phrase all time makes this list problematic for a program like OU which didnt get rolling until after WW2. Some say the modern era started with the AP poll ( 1936 ). Some say after WW2 (1946 ). I have always thought Nebraska and TOSU were tied at 5th with the others in the top 4 being Ala., ND, SC, and OU...not in any particular order, although the Saban era would seem to me to have catapulted the Tide to #1. Every school has had it's down periods. Its consistency that sets the elite apart.
 

saturdaysarebet

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Totally agree Owen. I think the elite schools should be competing for a national title at least once in every decade for not just a few decades either.
 

selmaborntidefan

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awbern?!? You totally whiffed on that one... :rolleye2:

They won NCs in 1957 and 2010. 1957 they were on probation for recruiting violations, so they used players that they had acquired by cheating. 2010 is well documented...
Now quick.....tell me about Oklahoma's national championships on probation in 1955, 1956, and 1974......the first involved illegal tuition payments and the second involved an assistant falsifying a player's transcript


And then they got hit with a probation in 1988 for violations from 1980 to 1987, which would include (wait for it)....1985


So using your own standard, how can OU be one of the top programs of all-time?


Let me be clear: OU IS one of the 4-5 best programs. But let's not be ripping on Auburn ("oh, their titles don't count because they cheated" and then lift up Oklahoma, who got hit with probation for 4 of their 7 titles).

Auburn is not a top ten all-time program.

They ARE correctly rated just below that in the 10-20 range. 13th in wins, 18th in pct, and as many SEC titles as Florida
 

81usaf92

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Now quick.....tell me about Oklahoma's national championships on probation in 1955, 1956, and 1974......the first involved illegal tuition payments and the second involved an assistant falsifying a player's transcript


And then they got hit with a probation in 1988 for violations from 1980 to 1987, which would include (wait for it)....1985


So using your own standard, how can OU be one of the top programs of all-time?


Let me be clear: OU IS one of the 4-5 best programs. But let's not be ripping on Auburn ("oh, their titles don't count because they cheated" and then lift up Oklahoma, who got hit with probation for 4 of their 7 titles).

Auburn is not a top ten all-time program.

They ARE correctly rated just below that in the 10-20 range. 13th in wins, 18th in pct, and as many SEC titles as Florida
Good to have you back Selma!!!
 

NationalTitles18

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Before Schnellenburger ( sp? ) showed up The U was about to drop football. The phrase all time makes this list problematic for a program like OU which didnt get rolling until after WW2. Some say the modern era started with the AP poll ( 1936 ). Some say after WW2 (1946 ). I have always thought Nebraska and TOSU were tied at 5th with the others in the top 4 being Ala., ND, SC, and OU...not in any particular order, although the Saban era would seem to me to have catapulted the Tide to #1. Every school has had it's down periods. Its consistency that sets the elite apart.
I agree completely with the bolded.

Any good program can have a championship with a little luck. Few can sustain that and even fewer can sustain that over a long enough period to have a dynastic period and even fewer for long enough to be considered a blue blood or top 10 program.

There are eight or nine programs that are currently relevant and that have a combination of wins, win %, and championships to be considered "blue blood" top programs and all but one are in my top 8. UTe is just on the outside looking in, IMHO and for various reasons the pickings get much slimmer after that.

There is also the problem, as you mention, of different era's in college football. Some, like the IVY League school, dominated the first 80 years or so. Most present day top programs got their start from about 1900-1950, give or take. Michigan had more earlier championships followed by long droughts but still racked up enough wins to by #1 in that category. Even without the titles that take a lot of consistently good football to do that. Even among elite programs there are issues in consistency. Alabama and USC came to prominence at roughly the same time and have followed somewhat similar paths over nearly 100 years, with Alabama pulling away in the last 11 years or so.

If we split things into different era's I suspect everyone's lists would change substantially depending on the era. Very few teams would show up in multiple era's as a top 10 program. Those that would show up more often that not are those four or so top teams of all time. After that long term consistency falls off further and further as we go down the list.

I could break my list into groups of three with Bama, USC, and ND comprising the top tier and each group of three schools being comparable enough that you could place any of those three in any order but each would have a difficult time breaking out of that particular group of three. So Mich, OSU, and OU rankings could go in any order but it would be difficult to place any of those above ND. It would be difficult for UTw, UTe, or Neb to break into that group (4-6). PSU could legitimately be discussed in that group as well.

After that it becomes much more difficult to place teams in the next higher group and 10-20 or so there are a lot of good programs bunched together with lots of strong history and a lot of warts. Differentiating those teams into smaller groups becomes even more difficult and there is little reason to bump a higher ranked program for any of them. These are good programs with occasional greatness.

Enough rambling for now.
 

NoNC4Tubs

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Now quick.....tell me about Oklahoma's national championships on probation in 1955, 1956, and 1974......the first involved illegal tuition payments and the second involved an assistant falsifying a player's transcript


And then they got hit with a probation in 1988 for violations from 1980 to 1987, which would include (wait for it)....1985


So using your own standard, how can OU be one of the top programs of all-time?


Let me be clear: OU IS one of the 4-5 best programs. But let's not be ripping on Auburn ("oh, their titles don't count because they cheated" and then lift up Oklahoma, who got hit with probation for 4 of their 7 titles).

Auburn is not a top ten all-time program.

They ARE correctly rated just below that in the 10-20 range. 13th in wins, 18th in pct, and as many SEC titles as Florida
Let's be clear...awbern is NOT, nor ever will be a blue blood in CFB. Equestrian, yes. But not CFB... :cool:
 

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