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Game Thread: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama vs. MSU...

TIDE-HSV

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In this forum, we haven't usually had postgame thread, owing to lack of demand for it. The game thread has just been allowed to ramble on. We'll change that. I'm going to issue the standard warning about "bashing" players and coaches, because there's been some of that going on. Sometimes, the way you say something is much more important than what you say. That said, here is an excerpt from the TI forum from a knowledgeable poster which sums up my thoughts:

So predictable. We run same thing and don’t even execute it well. Have u ever thought why nobody plays zone against us when we don’t shoot well on road. Because we turn the ball over so much in our man offense. We would be much better off really pushing the ball up the floor and driving to bucket or dishing and shooting quickly. The thing that gets me is when caj first came here,that was the plan,shoot in 15 secs but we never tried it in game. We have really good personel for fast paced game,lewis can drive(with both hands) and can always if have to stop and get off a good shot. Mack,ingram,petty,riley on the wings, can get off a decent shot if lewis dishes. Also we play 10 players so we have the depth to play fast. Our half court offense is really a disgrace for the caliber of players we have.

Another thing is our half court defense. The sec is loaded with good penetrating guards this year,our guards are fairly big and we can not stop the opponent guards form driving. We have players that would really fit well for a 1-3-1 trapping defense,jones with his length would be perfect for playing def on top or on wing,ingram great for playing on baseline. We also can play a trapping 2-3 zone. I am not saying play whole game in zone but at least mix it up.

Another thing is our inbound plays,offense and defense.pitiful,we are at such a disadvantage.
Click to expand...
This is without ad hominem attacks against individual players...
 
BamaMoon

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Good observation in the OP about running and playing quick. I haven't watched UT much and I've seen Auburn very little too, but that seems to be their MO.

As bad as we are at half court offense (passing, TOs and long stretches of not scoreing) this would make a lot of sense and it would be an exciting brand of B-ball.
 
OakMtn4Bama

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We need to win the next four in a row to have a shot at the tourney. On paper we should be able to do it, but I can't see it happening.
 
CrimsonForce

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The game of basketball builds on itself. The problem with playing fast is that the team has to play good defense and rebound the basketball first. That's the key to start a fast break. It's not nearly as effective to push the ball from an inbounds pass as it is from a defensive rebound. That's my (and many others) biggest complaint about this year and the program in general. The team lacks fundamentals and therefore things like a fast break offense or mixing and matching man and zone on defense are basically out of the question. These are the basics we struggle with:

-handling the ball
-free throws
-on defense, staying in front of the offensive player and switching
-rebounding

Until we can do those things consistently there won't be consistent performance on the court. At this point I think Avery has not adjusted to the college game. Avery himself said this recently IRT rebounding. He said up until this year he had "designated" rebounders similar to his teams in the NBA. Avery said he changed that approach this year but there's probably many similar things that he's still trying to coach / teach like he did in the NBA. It's a combination of the team being coached by someone with a NBA pedigree in addition to not having players to run the system. Either the coaching has to change or we have to start recruiting at a much higher level throughout the roster..
 
Last edited:
BamaMike05

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CrimsonForce said:
The game of basketball builds on itself. The problem with playing fast is that the team has to play good defense and rebound the basketball first. That's the key to start a fast break. It's not nearly as effective to push the ball from an inbounds pass as it is from a defensive rebound. That's my (and many others) biggest complaint about this year and the program in general. The team lacks fundamentals and therefore things like a fast break offense or mixing and matching man and zone on defense are basically out of the question. These are the basics we struggle with:

-handling the ball
-free throws
-on defense, staying in front of the offensive player and switching
-rebounding

Until we can do those things consistently there won't be consistent performance on the court. At this point I think Avery has not adjusted to the college game. Avery himself said this recently IRT rebounding. He said up until this year he had "designated" rebounders similar to his teams in the NBA. Avery said he changed that approach this year but there's probably many similar things that he's still trying to coach / teach like he did in the NBA. It's a combination of the team being coached by someone with a NBA pedigree in addition to not having players to run the system. Either the coaching has to change or we have to start recruiting at a much higher level throughout the roster..
Click to expand...
This is going to come as a shocker lol. But, I agree with you. I think CAJ thought that coaching college ball was going to be much easier than it is. Some
of our issues are just effort, energy, and focus. There is zero excuse for us to not be a better defensive team. With our length, we should be a nightmare for teams defensively. We should also be a much better rebounding team. Rebounding is all effort and desire. I think focus is a major issue also. When we have our long scoring droughts and turn the ball over possession after possession, that’s a focus issue.

One other thing lacking right now is that Alpha dog player. We need a team leader. Riley Norris has helped with that, but he is still just more of the veteran calming presence.

With all this said, I love how CAJ has marketed the program. He seems to have a general love for everything about the university. I really want him to work out and I think he will. I know you e say this often, but next year we bring in 3 guys that can tear the nets up. We should be a really solid team next year. But we have to fix those 3 issues. I think focus is the most glaring to me.


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BamaMike05

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day-day said:
http://www.secsports.com/statistics/mens-basketball/team/steals

Bama is in the middle of the SEC in turnovers committed per game.

Bama is at the very bottom in steals per game.
Click to expand...
I would like to know how many turnovers we average in the last 8 minutes of each game. It just seems like our turnovers just come at the worst times. I also think the turnover talk is because of how many turnovers we have had on the road. We typically do ok protecting it at home. I think it’s on the road where we struggle protecting the ball.


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CrimsonForce

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BamaMike05 said:
This is going to come as a shocker lol. But, I agree with you. I think CAJ thought that coaching college ball was going to be much easier than it is. Some
of our issues are just effort, energy, and focus. There is zero excuse for us to not be a better defensive team. With our length, we should be a nightmare for teams defensively. We should also be a much better rebounding team. Rebounding is all effort and desire. I think focus is a major issue also. When we have our long scoring droughts and turn the ball over possession after possession, that’s a focus issue.

One other thing lacking right now is that Alpha dog player. We need a team leader. Riley Norris has helped with that, but he is still just more of the veteran calming presence.

With all this said, I love how CAJ has marketed the program. He seems to have a general love for everything about the university. I really want him to work out and I think he will. I know you e say this often, but next year we bring in 3 guys that can tear the nets up. We should be a really solid team next year. But we have to fix those 3 issues. I think focus is the most glaring to me.


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Click to expand...
All the intangible things you mentioned - focus, energy, effort, desire etc. should have been laid down in the foundation years ago when Avery took over. Makes you wonder if there's some kind of rift between the players and Avery because they don't appear to be playing all out for him. It's hard for me to watch the effort on the court and think the players are all in on Avery. If they're not then the question becomes why. Is it just this group of players or is it what I mentioned earlier in that Avery is teaching and coaching in a fashion (NBA style) that doesn't work in the college game..
 
RTR91

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day-day said:
http://www.secsports.com/statistics/mens-basketball/team/steals

Bama is in the middle of the SEC in turnovers committed per game.

Bama is at the very bottom in steals per game.
Click to expand...

Posted this last week in the UGA game thread:

RTR91 said:
I just checked the numbers. While steals are down, defensive rebounds are up and blocks are about the same. Defensive rebounds per game, steals per game, and blocks per game combined:2016: 35.82017: 36.72018: 37.62019: 36.3Would like to get the PPGA down.
Click to expand...
Strangely, Alabama is ranked #49 in the nation (#4 in the SEC) in rebound margin at +4.7. It was over +5 a few weeks ago.
 
BamaMoon

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BamaMike05 said:
This is going to come as a shocker lol. But, I agree with you. I think CAJ thought that coaching college ball was going to be much easier than it is. Some
of our issues are just effort, energy, and focus. There is zero excuse for us to not be a better defensive team. With our length, we should be a nightmare for teams defensively. We should also be a much better rebounding team. Rebounding is all effort and desire. I think focus is a major issue also. When we have our long scoring droughts and turn the ball over possession after possession, that’s a focus issue.

One other thing lacking right now is that Alpha dog player. We need a team leader. Riley Norris has helped with that, but he is still just more of the veteran calming presence.

With all this said, I love how CAJ has marketed the program. He seems to have a general love for everything about the university. I really want him to work out and I think he will. I know you e say this often, but next year we bring in 3 guys that can tear the nets up. We should be a really solid team next year. But we have to fix those 3 issues. I think focus is the most glaring to me.


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Click to expand...
Those are fair points about CAJ, pro and con.

I hate to do it, but CNS should be a great example to Avery. CNS believes in doing the little things right. Little mistakes make for a big defeat. That's what we do in football better than anybody else. We do the little things right.

Now, as CAJ is on this learning curve of college coaching, I wish he'd get that point and return to some basics:

Rebounding
Passing
Ball handling/dribbling
Defense
Inbounding plays, etc.

Get most of this stuff right and be a fundamentally solid team and most of our losses this year go away.

Notice I didn't include Free throw shooting which I think is a direct result of shooting ability. I know we could be better there, but the best way to improve that is go recruit some better shooters.

I think this very subject is what bothers us so much. We aren't getting beat by other teams as much as we are beating ourselves with poor fundamentals.
 
TiderJack

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BamaMike05 said:
This is going to come as a shocker lol. But, I agree with you. I think CAJ thought that coaching college ball was going to be much easier than it is. Some
of our issues are just effort, energy, and focus. There is zero excuse for us to not be a better defensive team. With our length, we should be a nightmare for teams defensively. We should also be a much better rebounding team. Rebounding is all effort and desire. I think focus is a major issue also. When we have our long scoring droughts and turn the ball over possession after possession, that’s a focus issue.

One other thing lacking right now is that Alpha dog player. We need a team leader. Riley Norris has helped with that, but he is still just more of the veteran calming presence.

With all this said, I love how CAJ has marketed the program. He seems to have a general love for everything about the university. I really want him to work out and I think he will. I know you e say this often, but next year we bring in 3 guys that can tear the nets up. We should be a really solid team next year. But we have to fix those 3 issues. I think focus is the most glaring to me.


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Click to expand...
I agree that not having an alpha is one of the biggest issues this team has. We don't have the fiery, take charge guy that all good teams seem to have. I know our players are long, fast and athletic but we need to recruit some leader types that have great basketball acumen. I rarely see our guys huddle up to pull together at the free throw line or other situations. There are some better examples but I remember Antoine Petway at Bama was this guy and he was not extremely talented but was a strong leader.
 
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TiderJack said:
I agree that not having an alpha is one of the biggest issues this team has. We don't have the fiery, take charge guy that all good teams seem to have. I know our players are long, fast and athletic but we need to recruit some leader types that have great basketball acumen. I rarely see our guys huddle up to pull together at the free throw line or other situations. There are some better examples but I remember Antoine Petway at Bama was this guy and he was not extremely talented but was a strong leader.
Click to expand...
As BamaMike05, Norris is as close as it gets right now as a team leader and he has helped. Ingram should probably be the guy along with Norris right now. Point guards are built for this but freshmen are not usually in position for the role; Bama's starting point guards have been freshmen three years in a row.
 
RTR91

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BamaMike05 said:
I would like to know how many turnovers we average in the last 8 minutes of each game. It just seems like our turnovers just come at the worst times. I also think the turnover talk is because of how many turnovers we have had on the road. We typically do ok protecting it at home. I think it’s on the road where we struggle protecting the ball.


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Click to expand...
Alabama averages 13.6 TOs a game. 2.8 come in the final 8 minutes of each half (5.6 total). There were four turnovers that came with 8:01 to 8:12 left in the half.
 
BamaMoon

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TiderJack said:
I agree that not having an alpha is one of the biggest issues this team has. We don't have the fiery, take charge guy that all good teams seem to have. I know our players are long, fast and athletic but we need to recruit some leader types that have great basketball acumen. I rarely see our guys huddle up to pull together at the free throw line or other situations. There are some better examples but I remember Antoine Petway at Bama was this guy and he was not extremely talented but was a strong leader.
Click to expand...
day-day said:
As BamaMike05, Norris is as close as it gets right now as a team leader and he has helped. Ingram should probably be the guy along with Norris right now. Point guards are built for this but freshmen are not usually in position for the role; Bama's starting point guards have been freshmen three years in a row.
Click to expand...
Don't know who that guy could be right now. Dont' know if Kira has that in his personality...that remains to be seen but I doubt it'll manifiest itself this year.

Don't know where we stand with Watford, but maybe he has the personality.

I think Sexton had the personality, but Sexton didn't make others around him better. I think Kira has.
 
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BamaMoon said:
Don't know who that guy could be right now. Dont' know if Kira has that in his personality...that remains to be seen but I doubt it'll manifiest itself this year.

Don't know where we stand with Watford, but maybe he has the personality.

I think Sexton had the personality, but Sexton didn't make others around him better. I think Kira has.
Click to expand...
Hall is supposed to be the leader, but I see Norris getting on the other players when they don't do what they are supposed to do at times. Donta did stand up after the State game in the locker room and I think he got on them for the effort in the game, but it needs to happen during the games. I love Ingram, but I don't think his personality is that of a leader. It is no slight to him personally. I just think he tends to defer to other players.

I wish we had an alpha like Sexton, but more team oriented. We have a bunch of good kids, but no one who naturally steps up and holds his teammates accountable.
 
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