Game Thread: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. Gators...

CrimsonForce said:

Which player has shown improvement under Avery's tenure? Maybe Hall? Several others have regressed. Those other players you mentioned are in established programs and situations with a track record of improving players. To me it's less about the player and more about the program. We don't develop or coach the players to be in a position to be successful. Who knows what John Petty would be had he gone to Kentukcy or somewhere else. It's hard for me to believe he'd be any more underdeveloped than he is now..

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Obviously, the two guys I mentioned are at premiere basketball schools, but those two aren’t alone. Fact is some guys take longer than others to become what many expected them to be.

There has not been a massive improvement by one single player outside of Hall. However, there’s no arguing improvement by Galin and Petty this year.

I’m gradually moving toward a necessary change, but I differ with some on how bad everything is.

Part of me wonders if two of the assistants are more recruiters than coaches.


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Be a heck of a note - and not a blue font note - if the pinnacle of the season turns out to be Norris turning into Chuck Norris circa 1985 to slay the Vandy dragon. Norris, whom the announcer idiotically said Saturday would be starting for many of the better D1 teams in the country.

Has Avery milked anything even marginally successful out of any transfer he's drawn to 'Bama (AJJ notwithstanding)? I'm blessed with selective viewing (very much blessed given this team), but I have never seen Tevin Mack make a basket...

RTR91 said:

Obviously, the two guys I mentioned are at premiere basketball schools, but those two aren’t alone. Fact is some guys take longer than others to become what many expected them to be.

There has not been a massive improvement by one single player outside of Hall. However, there’s no arguing improvement by Galin and Petty this year.

I’m gradually moving toward a necessary change, but I differ with some on how bad everything is.

Part of me wonders if two of the assistants are more recruiters than coaches.

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BamaMoon said:

I agree you can't have unathletic guys, but what Wimp did was balance the athletic guys with a few others who were just flat out ballers. When's the last time we've had a Jim Farmer or Mark Gottfried type player? But even the athletic guys like Sprewell and Horry could score.

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This. I was in school at Bama in Wimp's glory days. We had guys who could jump out of the gym but had good basketball IQ on both sides of the floor (McKey, Ansley, Horry, Sprewell, Askins, and Benoit come quickly to mind), as well as savvy guards like Coner, Waites, and Gottfried. I have a feeling Wimp coached those raw athletes up to a high level and allowed the PGs to act as floor generals who carried out his clear game plans. Can't remember a lack of effort from those teams, either - very rarely did Bama get housed in those days, and almost never at home. Surely that standard is attainable again.

RTR91 said:

Obviously, the two guys I mentioned are at premiere basketball schools, but those two aren’t alone. Fact is some guys take longer than others to become what many expected them to be.

There has not been a massive improvement by one single player outside of Hall. However, there’s no arguing improvement by Galin and Petty this year.

I’m gradually moving toward a necessary change, but I differ with some on how bad everything is.

Part of me wonders if two of the assistants are more recruiters than coaches.


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Petty is averaging 11ppg this year and he averaged 10ppg last year. Galin Smith is averaging 3.8ppg this year compared to 2.8 ppg last year and every other meaningful stat is +/- 1. I mean yea, technically, that's improvement but it's so slight than it's really immaterial. That's kind of my point. We don't have a system that fosters player improvement. If there was an example of someone who really made improvements under Avery it would give some hope but just about everybody has stayed the same or regressed. In the fourth year of a coaching tenure there should be very easily identifiable areas of player improvement and we just don't have that..

CrimsonForce said:

Petty is averaging 11ppg this year and he averaged 10ppg last year. Galin Smith is averaging 3.8ppg this year compared to 2.8 ppg last year and every other meaningful stat is +/- 1. I mean yea, technically, that's improvement but it's so slight than it's really immaterial. That's kind of my point. We don't have a system that fosters player improvement. If there was an example of someone who really made improvements under Avery it would give some hope but just about everybody has stayed the same or regressed. In the fourth year of a coaching tenure there should be very easily identifiable areas of player improvement and we just don't have that..

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There are more things to consider than just points when discussing a player’s improvement.


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RTR91 said:

There are more things to consider than just points when discussing a player’s improvement.


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I'm not trying to be argumentative but where do you see marked improvement from Petty or Smith?

Petty:


Smith:

CrimsonForce said:

I guess this is where we just have a fundamental disagreement IRT the program moving in the right direction. This week we play aTm who is 10-14 overall and then play Vanderbilt who is 9-16 overall. True, I want us to win both games but it matters a lot to me how we win. If there's no improvement in the fundamentals, effort, energy etc. then those are hollow victories over doormat teams. I'm just not sure how 2 games vs teams who are a combined 3-21 in conference play can define a legacy one way or the other..

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Confidence and momentum moving forward. While unlikely it could propel us on a winning streak and make the tourney. I understand we have issues but I have not quite packed it in on this team even though I am very close.

CrimsonForce said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative but where do you see marked improvement from Petty or Smith?

Petty:

SEASON	TEAM	MIN	FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
2018-19	ALA	28.6	3.8-8.8	.438	1.9-5.3	.353	1.6-2.2	.727	3.9	1.7	0.6	0.5	1.0	1.8	11.2
2017-18	ALA	28.5	3.4-8.7	.393	2.5-6.7	.372	0.9-1.3	.711	2.6	1.8	0.3	0.5	1.0	2.1	10.2

Smith:

SEASON	TEAM	MIN	FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
2018-19	ALA	12.3	1.6-3.1	.521	0.0-0.0	.000	0.6-1.2	.464	2.3	0.1	0.4	0.1	1.8	1.0	3.8
2017-18	ALA	12.1	1.3-2.0	.627	0.0-0.0	.000	0.3-1.0	.281	2.0	0.1	0.7	0.1	1.6	0.7	2.8

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I think there is little doubt Petty has become a better overall player. He attacks the basket better and has not been settling on the jumper and is rebounding better. Not drastically improved but better.

CrimsonForce said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative but where do you see marked improvement from Petty or Smith?

Petty:

SEASON	TEAM	MIN	FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
2018-19	ALA	28.6	3.8-8.8	.438	1.9-5.3	.353	1.6-2.2	.727	3.9	1.7	0.6	0.5	1.0	1.8	11.2
2017-18	ALA	28.5	3.4-8.7	.393	2.5-6.7	.372	0.9-1.3	.711	2.6	1.8	0.3	0.5	1.0	2.1	10.2

Smith:

SEASON	TEAM	MIN	FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
2018-19	ALA	12.3	1.6-3.1	.521	0.0-0.0	.000	0.6-1.2	.464	2.3	0.1	0.4	0.1	1.8	1.0	3.8
2017-18	ALA	12.1	1.3-2.0	.627	0.0-0.0	.000	0.3-1.0	.281	2.0	0.1	0.7	0.1	1.6	0.7	2.8

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Let me change my post - stats aren’t the only indicator of a player’s progression.

Petty has gotten better at handling the ball. He plays better defense. He’s more active on the court even if his shot isn’t falling, which he didn’t do last year.


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RTR91 said:

Let me change my post - stats aren’t the only indicator of a player’s progression.

Petty has gotten better at handling the ball. He plays better defense. He’s more active on the court even if his shot isn’t falling, which he didn’t do last year.


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Petty has become a better all around player in that he will drive to the basket and rebounds better, but he hasn't shown he can consistently shoot. That and the fact we aren't running any plays for him either. He is also turnover waiting to happen when he dribbles. Our screens are just terrible. We usually run them just so the bigs can cut to the basket. I know it is a pro concept, but it is like any other sport, If you run it all the time the other teams going to eventually defend it. We do have kids with more skill. Petty is a streaky shooter at times, Ingram is shooting lights our from 3, Kira Lewis is shooting well, Mack has come around lately as well. The problem is no one else scores period. We've had a few nights where Norris is good, but not enough. It puzzles me why Mack isn't getting more minutes. He is the only guy on the team I consider a scoring threat inside and out. He may miss a switch on defense, but I think he'll makes up for by scoring 15 to 20 a game. Our lineup changes so much no one can get comfortable with each other which causes turnovers.

Overall, we just lack fundamentals, dribbling, shooting, and blocking out. The stuff they used to teach on the 1st day on basketball when I was a kid in PE. AAU ball has hurt kids learning the basics of the game. They just want to dunk and shoot 3's. How many layups have we missed this year? It shows when you watch now as opposed the when Wimp was coaching. Wimp had good athletes, but for the most part they understood the fundamentals. Now, I just don't think it is the case.
I think Coach Johnson will get another year if he stays, but Greg Byrne needs a list in his desk drawer of good candidates.

TiderJack said:

I think there is little doubt Petty has become a better overall player. He attacks the basket better and has not been settling on the jumper and is rebounding better. Not drastically improved but better.

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RTR91 said:

Let me change my post - stats aren’t the only indicator of a player’s progression.

Petty has gotten better at handling the ball. He plays better defense. He’s more active on the court even if his shot isn’t falling, which he didn’t do last year.


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Ok, so he's improved in every way that you can't measure? Got it. The point is not to flame Petty because he is a solid player and is probably marginally better than he was last year but IMO we haven't had a single player show marked improvement under Avery unless Hall qualifies for that. Then we have 1 player who has shown meaningful improvement and a host of others have regressed or mostly stayed the same. Maybe Petty is a late bloomer but it's far more likely that he won't improve much more than what he is now in our program which is sad because he has the potential to be an All-SEC player..

CrimsonForce said:

Ok, so he's improved in every way that you can't measure? Got it. The point is not to flame Petty because he is a solid player and is probably marginally better than he was last year but IMO we haven't had a single player show marked improvement under Avery unless Hall qualifies for that. Then we have 1 player who has shown meaningful improvement and a host of others have regressed or mostly stayed the same. Maybe Petty is a late bloomer but it's far more likely that he won't improve much more than what he is now in our program which is sad because he has the potential to be an All-SEC player..

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I would say Hall is the one player that without question has improved. Not only has his offensive game improved tremendously, but he has improved his free throw shooting at least 25 or 30% from his freshman year. I think his post moves are significantly better than when he was a freshman. Problem is, our offense rarely tries to feed him the ball on or around the block.

your thoughts mirror mine. not having a true PF is hurting us. also at this point, we should have an experienced PG on the roster. Like you said, we have too many guys who are more tweener than having a true position. we get very little production out of Giddens and Smith so we wont be strong at the center position next season.

imauafan said:

Much has been said about CAJ recruiting and while I definitely appreciate his energy and enthusiasm in going after some of the elite players his recruiting as a whole has been somewhat over-rated. We're overloaded with players who are hybrid 2-3 players and we're desperately shorthanded at PG and at the 4-5 slots. Unless someone leaves we do not have a scholly available to sign anyone else although given the fact that we're still after Watford (<50% chance that we get him) tells me they expect at least 1 player to leave (my guess is Giddens). Regardless of who the coach is next year I think there needs to be some serious roster management taking place and 2-3 players encouraged to move on so we can bring in a grad transfer or two to shore up the areas where we are the weakest otherwise next year could be a disaster.

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gamersfuel said:

your thoughts mirror mine. not having a true PF is hurting us. also at this point, we should have an experienced PG on the roster. Like you said, we have too many guys who are more tweener than having a true position. we get very little production out of Giddens and Smith so we wont be strong at the center position next season.

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To be fair, I think people underestimate Javian Fleming. He has the size and also has some shooting skill. He warmed up with the team before the Florida game for the 1st time, but from what I hear, he is redshirting. He will be at least a solid player and has a good upside. I think Smith can be a glass eater, and get a ton of garbage buckets which is what Auburn lives on BTW. We always hear we have stud shooters coming in that seem to struggle when they get here. My biggest gripe is free throws. We've lost 3 game simply because we can't shoot free throws. Imagine our conversation if we had beaten UCF, Georgia State, and A&M, we'd be 18-7 and a shoe in for the big dance. Instead, we are 15-10 and likely out at this point. unless we go on a tear. We should win both games this week and then have USC there, LSU at home, Auburn at home, and Arkansas Away. Frankly with the way we are playing, can anyone see us winning more than 3 games in that stretch? We could go on a run, but we'll have to play with more passion than we have shown in the last 4 or 5 games. This is the same team that beat UK ,and nearly beat UT on their home court so there is still hope. We have lost what I thought were really play in games with Baylor, and Florida so head to head losses hurts us.

I'm with you RamaJama. Free throws are a big gripe of mine. 30 of 31 one game , 4 of 15 another. Just a lack of focus. I wonder if the team is too leg weary from practice routine.

Interestingly, according to this article, at this time we're still projected to make the tournament as anywhere from a 10-12 seed. Big emphasis on "at this time"...........https://www.al.com/alabamabasketbal...e-ncaa-tournament-after-2-blowout-losses.html

I know this past week was bad but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bama still makes the tournament. This team *did* beat Kentucky. They have ability.

Rama Jama said:

We should win both games this week and then have USC there, LSU at home, Auburn at home, and Arkansas Away. Frankly with the way we are playing, can anyone see us winning more than 3 games in that stretch?

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At this point, even winning 3 games seems like a stretch. We'll find out how realistic that goal is tomorrow night. If I were a betting man.......................................</rant>

CoachJeff said:

I know this past week was bad but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bama still makes the tournament. This team *did* beat Kentucky. They have ability.

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Ability, yes, but with......shall we say..................no guts/heart/whatever.

Ability without effort rarely leads to success. That is our team.