Politics: Proposed gas tax for Alabama

twofbyc · Mar 9, 2019

RTR91 said:
IOW, make money for two years before fully implemented. That wouldn’t happen with a lottery, which would be hard not to go toward education anyway.

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Which, according to my understanding, is where some of the current gas tax is going (maybe it’s the judicial system - you know, the one that’s closed on Wednesday’s) - possibly some of the new tax as well, although I have yet to see any accounting officially released on where the current tax goes and where the new tax will go.

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RTR91 · Mar 9, 2019

twofbyc said:
Which, according to my understanding, is where some of the current gas tax is going (maybe it’s the judicial system - you know, the one that’s closed on Wednesday’s) - possibly some of the new tax as well, although I have yet to see any accounting officially released on where the current tax goes and where the new tax will go.

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And part of the law is to make that no longer continues.

The judicial branch is not closed on Wednesday. I know because I work in it. Certain local courts might still be closed to save money because the branch is underfunded as a whole, but not the entire system.

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4Q Basket Case · Mar 9, 2019

twofbyc said:
The Louisiana lottery tax proceeds in 2018 were right at 172 million, and the state population is slightly lower than ours.
Colorado has about a million more people than we do, but they received over 266 million in tax revenue from weed sales in 2018.
Neither of these is a “mandatory” tax; a fuel tax, realistically, is, since Alabama has no mass transit system to speak of.
Personally, I think casinos should be allowed in every county with a minimum population (50-100 thousand). Interstate 10 from Ocean Springs to almost the Louisiana line was widened and upgraded with casino money.
It’s all about priorities, and some people being unwilling to put aside prejudices and biases that are routinely being shown as reasons for Alabama being ranked 46th. Granted, Mississippi and Louisiana are ranked behind us, but I only used those states as comparisons because of similar population size. One of the biggest reasons we’re all ranked so low is healthcare - three Republican strongholds.
There are other ways to generate tax revenue, but it’s easier for Republicans to tax those who can least afford it; they think most of those folks are Democrats, but they’re wrong - there are some very ignorant Republican voters in that group, a lot more than they realize.

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So you suggest:

1. Instituting a lottery. Might work.

2. Legalize weed and / or casinos in every county, and tax both. A pipe dream. That ain't happening. Might as well try to tax the sun for rising in the east.

3. Fix the Republican Party. See #2 above.

I'm looking for suggestions that might actually get passed, and have a snowball's chance in hell of being effective. The lottery fits. But as I read the others, they look a bit idealistic.

So are the realistic options the gas tax and a lottery? If so, I'm OK with that.

But I would point out that the major criticism of lotteries in other states is that the primary ticket buyers are the very segments of the population that can least afford to do so.

Which kinda gets on toward the Republicans taxing those who can least afford to pay.

So is the difference that the unwashed make a voluntary choice to buy a lottery ticket, as opposed to being taxed via voluntary purchase of gasoline?

Also, just curious, how is that a Republican vs. Democratic issue?

RTR91 · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
So you suggest:

1. Instituting a lottery. Might work.

2. Legalize weed and / or casinos in every county, and tax both. A pipe dream. That ain't happening. Might as well try to tax the sun for rising in the east.

3. Fix the Republican Party. See #2 above.

I'm looking for suggestions that might actually get passed, and have a snowball's chance in hell of being effective. The lottery fits. But as I read the others, they look a bit idealistic.

So are the realistic options the gas tax and a lottery? If so, I'm OK with that.

But I would point out that the major criticism of lotteries in other states is that the primary ticket buyers are the very segments of the population that can least afford to do so.

Which kinda gets on toward the Republicans taxing those who can least afford to pay.

So is the difference that the unwashed make a voluntary choice to buy a lottery ticket, as opposed to being taxed via voluntary purchase of gasoline?

Also, just curious, how is that a Republican vs. Democratic issue?

This is only a partisan issue if one insist it be.

The breakdown:

No - 18 republican, 2 democrat
Yes - 58 republican, 26 democrat

23.7% of republicans voted against it.

7.1% of democrats voted against it.

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Islander · Mar 10, 2019

RTR91 said:
This is only a partisan issue if one insist it be.

The breakdown:

No - 18 republican, 2 democrat
Yes - 58 republican, 26 democrat

23.7% of republicans voted against it.

7.1% of democrats voted against it.

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Is there a list somewhere that lists who voted yes and who voted no?

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RTR91 · Mar 10, 2019

Islander said:
Is there a list somewhere that lists who voted yes and who voted no?

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alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/Alison/GetRollCallVoteResults.aspx?MOID=604352&VOTE=18&BODY=H&INST=HB2&SESS=1075&AMDSUB=

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81usaf92 · Mar 10, 2019

Baseball suffers from the lack of a lottery so that is a HUGE reason I wish we would stop this " The Last Stand for Christian Morals and Principles" stance in politics. Especially after Gay Marriage was instituted. The reason we don't have a lottery is mostly because Alabama politics are inhabited by a bunch of stupid people. I cant tell you how many people are going to Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee everytime they hear the Powerball and Mega Millions gets high. The State of Alabama is willingly losing money just to keep this dumb stances.

twofbyc · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
So you suggest:

1. Instituting a lottery. Might work.

2. Legalize weed and / or casinos in every county, and tax both. A pipe dream. That ain't happening. Might as well try to tax the sun for rising in the east.

3. Fix the Republican Party. See #2 above.

I'm looking for suggestions that might actually get passed, and have a snowball's chance in hell of being effective. The lottery fits. But as I read the others, they look a bit idealistic.

So are the realistic options the gas tax and a lottery? If so, I'm OK with that.

But I would point out that the major criticism of lotteries in other states is that the primary ticket buyers are the very segments of the population that can least afford to do so.

Which kinda gets on toward the Republicans taxing those who can least afford to pay.

So is the difference that the unwashed make a voluntary choice to buy a lottery ticket, as opposed to being taxed via voluntary purchase of gasoline?

Also, just curious, how is that a Republican vs. Democratic issue?

Just because you deem something “unrealistic” only means it’s not a viable option in your mind (and others), and has been proven viable in other states.
You asked for options; I gave them to you. It matters not that the people in Alabama are so collectively bass-ackwards and ignorant they won’t implement them. That’s irrelevant. They are options.
And FWIW, when I drive to Pensacola with coworkers, the ones who buy lottery tickets are well off and don’t need to work, they only do it to get out of the house (they are all retirees).
So I think the mantra of only the poor buy lottery tickets is not just flawed, it’s wrong (poor Floyd Mayweather says hi) - more ideological claptrap from the morally righteous who support Trump. (BLUE FONT).

I did say in an earlier post “the elected morons in Monkey town” without specifying party. Democrats aren’t opposed to taxes, they just generally prefer spreading the burden around.
Don’t even say this gas tax affects everybody equally. Democrats in Montgomery know it, they are just blue dogs. Probably been immersed in Republican propaganda in monkeytown for so long they no longer care.

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twofbyc · Mar 10, 2019

81usaf92 said:
Baseball suffers from the lack of a lottery so that is a HUGE reason I wish we would stop this " The Last Stand for Christian Morals and Principles" stance in politics. Especially after Gay Marriage was instituted. The reason we don't have a lottery is mostly because Alabama politics are inhabited by a bunch of stupid people. I cant tell you how many people are going to Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee everytime they hear the Powerball and Mega Millions gets high. The State of Alabama is willingly losing money just to keep this dumb stances.

And to play at the casinos - go through the parking lot of Cottage Hill Baptist church on Sunday getting tag numbers then go to Beau Rivage Friday and Saturday night and compare; you’ll find more matches than you imagine, but Baptists didn’t want the Indians to open Wind Creek in Atmore.

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Islander · Mar 10, 2019

A Baptist Pastor friend of mine always said if the Baptists would stop buying whiskey, the ABC stores would close for lack of customers.

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Crimson1967 · Mar 10, 2019

If people are stupid enough to flush their money down the toilet on lottery tickets, who am I to stand in their way?

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4Q Basket Case · Mar 10, 2019

twofbyc said:
You asked for options....It matters not that the people in Alabama are so collectively bass-ackwards and ignorant they won’t implement them. That’s irrelevant. They are options.

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So a pipe dream is as relevant as something that is realistic? Really? Don Quixote, izzatchoo?

92tide · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
So a pipe dream is as relevant as something that is realistic? Really? Don Quixote, izzatchoo?

to be fair, gay marriage and weed legalization were quixotic pipe dreams not that long ago

4Q Basket Case · Mar 10, 2019

92tide said:
to be fair, gay marriage and weed legalization were quixotic pipe dreams not that long ago

We're discussing a solution to an Alabama-centric problem.

Gay marriage was decided by SCOTUS. It would still be illegal in Alabama, if Alabama had jurisdiction over the question. Marijuana is still illegal both at the federal level and in Alabama. It is legal in certain states only because the Feds choose to use law enforcement resources elsewhere.

Unless and until the Feds get jurisdiction over states' regulation of marijuana, and change their own position, it'll stay illegal in Alabama for the foreseeable future. They had a hard enough time getting THC available to seizure patients who could get relief nowhere else.

I'm not agreeing with the Alabama legislature's stance on either one. Quite the contrary. I'm just saying that to get around them, you'll have to get the issue out of the hands of those idiots by converting the question to a federal one.

With the exception of interstates and US highways, fixing Alabama's roads is going to be exceedingly difficult to convert to a federal question.

And so we are back to trying to formulate a solution that the buffoons in Montgomery will approve before our roads and bridges disintegrate. Anything else is tilting at windmills...thus the Don Quixote reference.

81usaf92 · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
We're discussing a solution to an Alabama-centric problem.

Gay marriage was decided by SCOTUS. It would still be illegal in Alabama, if Alabama had jurisdiction over the question. Marijuana is still illegal both at the federal level and in Alabama. It is legal in certain states only because the Feds choose to use law enforcement resources elsewhere.

Unless and until the Feds get jurisdiction over states' regulation of marijuana, and change their own position, it'll stay illegal in Alabama for the foreseeable future. They had a hard enough time getting THC available to seizure patients who could get relief nowhere else.

I'm not agreeing with the Alabama legislature's stance on either one. Quite the contrary. I'm just saying that to get around them, you'll have to get the issue out of their hands by converting the question to a federal one.

With the exception of interstates and US highways, fixing Alabama's roads is going to be exceedingly difficult to convert to a federal question.

And so we are back to trying to formulate a solution that the buffoons in Montgomery will approve. Anything else is tilting at windmills...thus the Don Quixote reference.

Alabama ruled in favor of Gay Marriage before the SCOTUS ruling. Had it not been for Bentley, Moore, and Strange then 100% of the counties would’ve complied with Grande’s ruling and not just 70%.

RTR91 · Mar 10, 2019

81usaf92 said:
Alabama ruled in favor of Gay Marriage before the SCOTUS ruling. Had it not been for Bentley, Moore, and Strange then 100% of the counties would’ve complied with Grande’s ruling and not just 70%.

The ruling was to let SCOTUS decide.

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NationalTitles18 · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
We're discussing a solution to an Alabama-centric problem.

Gay marriage was decided by SCOTUS. It would still be illegal in Alabama, if Alabama had jurisdiction over the question. Marijuana is still illegal both at the federal level and in Alabama. It is legal in certain states only because the Feds choose to use law enforcement resources elsewhere.

Unless and until the Feds get jurisdiction over states' regulation of marijuana, it'll stay illegal in Alabama for the foreseeable future. They had a hard enough time getting THC available to seizure patients who could get relief nowhere else.

I'm not agreeing with the Alabama legislature's stance on either one. Quite the contrary. I'm just saying that to get around them, you'll have to get the issue out of their hands by converting the question to a federal one.

With the exception of interstates and US highways, fixing Alabama's roads is going to be exceedingly difficult to convert to a federal question.

And so we are back to trying to formulate a solution that the buffoons in Montgomery will approve. Anything else is tilting at windmills...thus the Don Quixote reference.

Really, it seems to be more CBD than THC but even that was illegal (save for a lucky few who could get it from UAB after the law was changed) until the 2018 Farm Bill. It took a while to get the UAB program legalized and this was only done because people demanded it on humanitarian grounds once it was proven to help. It's hard to prove anything with research illegal, but I digress.

It seems that getting enough people to change their mind that we get agitation to reach a critical point where the scales are tipped is important so though it may seem far away or impossible it's important to keep pushing.

And if we can get a bill at the federal level to reschedule and make interstate sales of weed legal then the idiots in Montgomery won't matter.

But, oh! to get people to vote for people who will act in their best interest...

92tide · Mar 10, 2019

4Q Basket Case said:
We're discussing a solution to an Alabama-centric problem.

Gay marriage was decided by SCOTUS. It would still be illegal in Alabama, if Alabama had jurisdiction over the question. Marijuana is still illegal both at the federal level and in Alabama. It is legal in certain states only because the Feds choose to use law enforcement resources elsewhere.

Unless and until the Feds get jurisdiction over states' regulation of marijuana, and change their own position, it'll stay illegal in Alabama for the foreseeable future. They had a hard enough time getting THC available to seizure patients who could get relief nowhere else.

I'm not agreeing with the Alabama legislature's stance on either one. Quite the contrary. I'm just saying that to get around them, you'll have to get the issue out of their hands by converting the question to a federal one.

With the exception of interstates and US highways, fixing Alabama's roads is going to be exceedingly difficult to convert to a federal question.

And so we are back to trying to formulate a solution that the buffoons in Montgomery will approve. Anything else is tilting at windmills...thus the Don Quixote reference.

absolutely it will be a long while for alabama, but i do think (hope) that eventually reality will win enough folks over to take care of things like infrastructure and medicine.

i was often wearing a n.o.r.m.l. t-shirt around campus in the 90-91 time frame. it only takes a spark to get a fire going

81usaf92 · Mar 10, 2019

RTR91 said:
The ruling was to let SCOTUS decide.

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Birmingham and Mobile were issuing Gay marriage certificates well before SCOTUS ever ruled on it. Grande struck down the ban on gay marriage on February 9th, 2014. SCOTUS didn’t rule until June.

RTR91 · Mar 10, 2019

81usaf92 said:
Birmingham and Mobile were issuing Gay marriage certificates well before SCOTUS ever ruled on it. Grande struck down the ban on gay marriage on February 9th, 2014. SCOTUS didn’t rule until June.

And when brought before the Alabama SC, the ruling was “we’re going to wait and let SCOTUS decide” (obvious exception being Moore).

Thus, the licenses were still given. There are probate judges in the state that aren’t issuing licenses because of it.

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Politics: Proposed gas tax for Alabama

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