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  1. #79
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    It takes a lot of money beyond ticket sales and TP fees to field the programs we do, and football subsidizes all of the others. Basketball used to at least break even, but I don't think it does so anymore, and if we fire Johnson, it definitely won't. So while I see your point, I think you're being a bit tough.

    Put yourself in Greg Byrne's shoes for a moment.....given that the athletic department as a whole doesn't make a huge profit every year, and what little there is gets plowed back into facilities (mostly football), where would you cut in order to offset the loss of revenue from ancillary charges, and keep us in good graces with Title IX, and maintain the level of on-field performance we all want in all sports?

    Your last three sentences, though, raise a most interesting question, and one that I've wondered about for some time. The answer will be largely dependent on the ability of the next football coach to maintain the current level of performance, or at least be close. Which won't be easy. The fee to stay in line for TP tickets may not be much money, but it's the kind of thing that really gets under people's skin, and they remember it far more than the dollars would indicate.

    So while they may be able to get away with it now, I do think money-for-nothing charges like that will come back to haunt the athletic department.
    Football can cover itself without extra pocket change from whatís left of the Average Joeís life savings. We managed to land Saban and renovate the stadium multiple times without the extra money. Big Donors buy coaches and stadiums not Tide Priders and average fans.

    Iím not against the university trying to make an extra buck or two, but itís the lengths they go and how much they overcharge.

    I think they will find out how loyal fans will be to there price gouging when we are back to thinking 10 wins is a good season again. Because I know quite a many folks really thinking about how soon and far off their last game they go into is because that lazy boy in front of that great tv is a lot better on the back and wallet.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; March 18th, 2019 at 09:23 PM.

  2. #80
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Big Donors buy coaches and stadiums not Tide Priders and average fans.
    Exactly which big donors have 600 million laying around?
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  3. #81
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Exactly which big donors have 600 million laying around?
    He is right - the majority of the money will come from guys who will get access to the luxury areas being built. Not all of it, and not just a few of them, but not you and me - wealthy people.

  4. #82
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Exactly which big donors have 600 million laying around?
    So do you believe there is no real difference between what Alabama can do financially as a post to anyone in the SEC.There is a huge reason why Nick Saban is not at Texas and still here, and it has nothing to do with the pocket change they get From fans and season-ticket holderís
    Last edited by 81usaf92; March 19th, 2019 at 10:12 AM.

  5. #83
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    So do you believe there is no real difference between what Alabama can do financially as a post to anyone in the SEC.There is a huge reason why Nick Saban is not at Texas and still here, and it has nothing to do with the pocket change they get From fans and season-ticket holder’s
    If it really came down to big donors vs. big donors. Alabama wouldn't stand a chance against Texas.

    Here's just one illustration, the Texas system has an endowment of around 30 billion. Mind you, this is the result of donations made to the University. The University of Alabama has less than 2 billion.

    If it's a matter of big donors, Alabama doesn't have nearly enough firepower. Thankfully, it isn't...

    Edit: I can illustrate this further. Texas for example has some real heavyweight boosters, but this of course also comes with strings attached. We often hear about their meddling. I read a story about Phil Knight and Oregon, and how when they didn't do what he wanted he actually pulled his backing until they came crawling back. It is an advantage to have someone who can drop 100 million into your program, but it also comes with something else.

    There are some major backers out there, that can go toe to toe with Alabama's resources on an individual basis, and Alabama hasn't always won. For example, Alabama tried to lure Gregg Marshall from Wichita St. The Kochs stepped in and there was nothing Alabama could do to outbid or offer Gregg that the Kochs couldn't.

    Alabama doesn't have those type of boosters, that I'm aware of. If there's some invisible billionaire I'm missing, I'd love to hear about it (I know Alabama has boosters, but I haven't heard of anyone specifically with particularly remarkable wealth), but this also means Alabama doesn't kowtow to anyone in particular. The program itself controls its destiny, and yes relies far more heavily on the common fan and what we want than some insanely wealthy man behind a curtain.

    If you sell 100,000 tickets at $85 face value, that's 8.5 million dollars. That's Nick Saban's salary type money. May be to some that's taking advantage, but where do people think that money goes? It just might go to help keep Texas from taking your coach...
    Last edited by KrAzY3; March 19th, 2019 at 01:15 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  6. #84
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    If it really came down to big donors vs. big donors. Alabama wouldn't stand a chance against Texas.

    Here's just one illustration, the Texas system has an endowment of around 30 billion. Mind you, this is the result of donations made to the University. The University of Alabama has less than 2 billion.

    If it's a matter of big donors, Alabama doesn't have nearly enough firepower. Thankfully, it isn't...

    Edit: I can illustrate this further. Texas for example has some real heavyweight boosters, but this of course also comes with strings attached. We often hear about their meddling. I read a story about Phil Knight and Oregon, and how when they didn't do what he wanted he actually pulled his backing until they came crawling back. It is an advantage to have someone who can drop 100 million into your program, but it also comes with something else.

    There are some major backers out there, that can go toe to toe with Alabama's resources on an individual basis, and Alabama hasn't always won. For example, Alabama tried to lure Gregg Marshall from Wichita St. The Kochs stepped in and there was nothing Alabama could do to outbid or offer Gregg that the Kochs couldn't.

    Alabama doesn't have those type of boosters, that I'm aware of. If there's some invisible billionaire I'm missing, I'd love to hear about it, but this also means Alabama doesn't kowtow to anyone in particular. The program itself controls its destiny, and yes relies far more heavily on the common fan and what we want than some insanely wealthy man behind a curtain.
    So you really believe that our football program primarily survives off of Tide Priders, RECs, and merchandise? You probably need to look at the fact that Auburn and LSU have the same types of booster clubs and rabid fans that we do but both are stuck with coaches they canít rid of because of buyouts and stadiums they canít make sizable upgrades to.

    Alabama may not have the mega donor that Oregon witchita state has, or has the sheer number of big donors that aTm or Texas has, but they have enough to make Nick Sabanís contract to go up enough to be happy and enough to make stadium upgrades every 3 years. Alabama paid Shulaís Buyout and made Saban the richest coach in football in the same year. How many programs can do that in the SEC? Let alone the country?

    When you add it up the money that comes from TP and REC doesnít cover near enough to pay the taxes on the stadium, coachesís salary, and athletic upgrades that we keep seeing. There are some big people behind the scenes making money move different ways is the point. Yeah a crude number based on tickets ( which there arenít even 100,000 tickets sold at an 85 dollar face value since there at least 20k students sold at 10 bucks a ticket) but it doesnít take into account the other costs you have to pay even before you pay your head coach a penny. Who you get as a head coach is ultimately decided by how committed your upper echelon donors are. That doesnít mean you have to that Jimmy Rayne type guy that has more money than sense, it means you have enough multi millionaires to pay into a pot to make Jimmy Rayne irrelevant 3 times over.

    FWIW I know a couple Auburn boosters that told me from the start that Gus was going to be fired only if Jimmy Rayne pays over 80% of the buyout because the other big donors werenít going to chip in more than their share. Yet Alabama was willing to pull the trigger on Shula and willing to pay Saban what he wanted.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; March 19th, 2019 at 01:50 PM.

  7. #85
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    So you really believe that our football program primarily survives off of Tide Priders, RECs, and merchandise? You probably need to look at the fact that Auburn and LSU have the same types of booster clubs and rabid fans that we do but both are stuck with coaches they can’t rid of because of buyouts and stadiums they can’t make sizable upgrades to.
    In the sense that it's what gives Alabama the edge? Absolutely, I've watched Alabama's publicly declared finances during the Nick Saban era and I've watched them gradually climb. Still, a big shot in the arm from boosters is enough to send a Texas A&M, Texas, or Oregon well out ahead on a given year.

    Alabama got 40 million from the SEC last year. A simple calculator can figure out ticket revenue. They list donations to by the way, so for instance I can see that Texas A&M brought in 212 million in 2017 (ahead of Alabama) and that 93 million of that came via donations. But, when you calculate out Alabama's revenue, you see a far higher percentage came from those methods you mentioned. Merchandising (Alabama is consistently one of the top sellers), TV, ticket revenue, that's what powers this machine more so than anything else.

    "Alabama athletics brought in $174.3 million. Contributions accounted for $32.9 million"

    I think that puts things into proper perspective... The donors might actually outspend ticket sales (though I think some of those contributions were to acquire the rights to tickets), but they're not what drives this machine, they're just part of it. This isn't a school where half of the revenue comes via donations and it never will be.

    Edit: I will add this since I actually do look it up. Auburn and LSU consistently have less revenue per year...
    Last edited by KrAzY3; March 19th, 2019 at 01:54 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    In the sense that it's what gives Alabama the edge? Absolutely, I've watched Alabama's publicly declared finances during the Nick Saban era and I've watched them gradually climb. Still, a big shot in the arm from boosters is enough to send a Texas A&M, Texas, or Oregon well out ahead on a given year.

    Alabama got 40 million from the SEC last year. A simple calculator can figure out ticket revenue. They list donations to by the way, so for instance I can see that Texas A&M brought in 212 million in 2017 (ahead of Alabama) and that 93 million of that came via donations. But, when you calculate out Alabama's revenue, you see a far higher percentage came from those methods you mentioned. Merchandising (Alabama is consistently one of the top sellers), TV, ticket revenue, that's what powers this machine more so than anything else.

    "Alabama athletics brought in $174.3 million. Contributions accounted for $32.9 million"

    I think that puts things into proper perspective... Yes, the donors do actually outspend ticket sales (though I think some of those contributions were to acquire the rights to tickets), but they're not what drives this machine, they're just part of it. This isn't a school where half of the revenue comes via donations and it never will be.
    But again tell me the difference between LSU and Auburn now and Alabama in November of 2006...Every school has their version of the REC, TP, and merchandise. But not every school has a committed upper echelon of donors willing to see things move forward.

  9. #87
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    But again tell me the difference between LSU and Auburn now and Alabama in November of 2006...Every school has their version of the REC, TP, and merchandise. But not every school has a committed upper echelon of donors willing to see things move forward.
    That is not the difference though, not at all. That might be the difference at Oregon, or at Texas A&M (where they just flat outspent FSU). It isn't at Alabama.

    I do mention this on occasion, but I dug into endowments and athletic department revenue. That's why I was here, over a year before it happened saying Texas A&M would be a good addition. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I for years went and dug up the athletic department revenue and this was also why I ranted and raved about UAB and South Alabama wasting money, because the finances tell a story. I will preface this by saying luck is a factor. The biggest difference between Alabama, LSU and Auburn (though lets not kid ourselves, Auburn even with Nick Saban would not have the revenue Alabama has because they simply lack the sheer number of dedicated fans) remains the fact that Nick Saban is here and not there, but it's far from the only difference.

    With Alabama, the story isn't of high powered boosters at all. It's actually two things coming together. It's the fact that Alabama actually had some very knowledgeable, talented people involved with the program that have generally steered it in the right direction. I speak particularly of football. This combined with the other thing that Alabama has, which is a fanbase that per capita spends as well as any in the country! So, when you combine a larger than average fanbase, with one of the most loyal, hardest hitting pound for pound group of fans, you get Alabama's financial situation. Year after year Alabama has been in the top 5 in revenue, often only behind Texas and generally only behind another school because of boosters. The problem is, as often as not boosters at other schools have steered them astray. Alabama has managed to rely more heavily on their more knowledgeable and competent people.

    That means something. When you remove boosters from the equation, Alabama would usually be #1! I don't say this to discount Alabama boosters, they're important, they're still some of the best in college sports, but they're well behind the top boosters in the country. Where Alabama gets out ahead, year after year, has been the fact that the average Alabama fan is more dedicated. They buy more merch, they buy more tickets, they watch more games (Birmingham is one of, if not the top market for college football), and this is Alabama's advantage. That's the story the revenue tells, that's the story attendance tells (something else I've kept an eye on over the years), that's the story merch sales tell (another thing I've watched), that's the story ratings tell (yup, that to).
    Last edited by KrAzY3; March 19th, 2019 at 02:28 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    That is not the difference though, not at all. That might be the difference at Oregon, or at Texas A&M (where they just flat outspent FSU). It isn't at Alabama.

    I do mention this on occasion, but I dug into endowments and athletic department revenue. That's why I was here, over a year before it happened saying Texas A&M would be a good addition. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I for years went and dug up the athletic department revenue and this was also why I ranted and raved about UAB and South Alabama wasting money, because the finances tell a story. I will preface this by saying luck is a factor. The biggest difference between Alabama, LSU and Auburn (though lets not kid ourselves, Auburn even with Nick Saban would not have the revenue Alabama has because they simply lack the sheer number of dedicated fans) remains the fact that Nick Saban is here and not there, but it's far from the only difference.

    With Alabama, the story isn't of high powered boosters at all. It's actually two things coming together. It's the fact that Alabama actually had some very knowledgeable, talented people involved with the program that have generally steered it in the right direction. I speak particularly of football. This combined with the other thing that Alabama has, which is a fanbase that per capita spends as well as any in the country! So, when you combine a larger than average fanbase, with one of the most loyal, hardest hitting pound for pound group of fans, you get Alabama's financial situation. Year after year Alabama has been in the top 5 in revenue, often only behind Texas and generally only behind another school because of boosters. The problem is, as often as not boosters at other schools have steered them astray. Alabama has managed to rely more heavily on their more knowledgeable and competent people.

    That means something. When you remove boosters from the equation, Alabama would usually be #1! I don't say this to discount Alabama boosters, they're important, they're still some of the best in college sports, but they're well behind the top boosters in the country. Where Alabama gets out ahead, year after year, has been the fact that the average Alabama fan is more dedicated. They buy more merch, they buy more tickets, they watch more games (Birmingham is one of, if not the top market for college football), and this is Alabama's advantage. That's the story the revenue tells, that's the story attendance tells (something else I've kept an eye on over the years), that's the story merch sales tell (another thing I've watched), that's the story ratings tell (yup, that to).
    Iíll make it simple... ď how did we get Nick Saban and pay for him while paying off 2 HCs in major sportsĒ. At some point you are going to have to admit the average fan isnít who Mal was asking if he could make that kinda decision for that kinda money. He is asking Witt and the big donors if the money will be there if Sexton shoots for the moon.

    FWIW Iím not saying that big boosters and donors are running the show. Iím saying that their involvement is more often why teams can land big time coaches and make stadium advancements.

  11. #89
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    I’ll make it simple... “ how did we get Nick Saban and pay for him while paying off 2 HCs in major sports”. At some point you are going to have to admit the average fan isn’t who Mal was asking if he could make that kinda decision for that kinda money.
    I fully concede that for a quick infusion of cash, the boosters are absolutely necessary. I would however mention that this wasn't even a Jimbo Fisher Texas A&M type deal . Jimbo got 75 million. Nick Saban's first deal was a 32 million dollar deal, quite hefty but still at a different level in terms of how deep into pockets people had to dig. I'm sure that boosters helped fend off Texas' advances as well, just saying that if this was all about boosters that's a fight Alabama couldn't have won.

    I'm just trying to emphasize that the money us "regular" fans spend actually accounts for most of the money Alabama gets, and that we do make a difference. Even if you look at it like this, let's say only 100,000 Alabama fans spend money on the program in some capacity. You get to 140 million by accounting for 1,400 per fan. Now that's a lot, but considering there's more fans than that, that spend money, it's easy enough to see how those of us that spend a few hundred a year end up contributing to Alabama's supremacy.

    For instance, Alabama is #1 in the SEC in football attendance. Last I checked, Alabama was #1 in the SEC in merch sales. They were #1 in the SEC in non-TV media deals (several times higher than some other schools). So on so forth, so what you get is a program that minus the booster contributions is also #1 in the SEC in revenue. I get why it might feel like our contributions are kind of pointless, but cumulatively they are far from it. We collectively are what helps Alabama distance itself.

    There's also no getting around the fact that if we paid less, that gap would narrow if not vanish altogether.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; March 19th, 2019 at 04:19 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I fully concede that for a quick infusion of cash, the boosters are absolutely necessary. I would however mention that this wasn't even a Jimbo Fisher Texas A&M type deal . Jimbo got 75 million. Nick Saban's first deal was a 32 million dollar deal, quite hefty but still at a different level in terms of how deep into pockets people had to dig. I'm sure that boosters helped fend off Texas' advances as well, just saying that if this was all about boosters that's a fight Alabama couldn't have won.

    I'm just trying to emphasize that the money us "regular" fans spend actually accounts for most of the money Alabama gets, and that we do make a difference. Even if you look at it like this, let's say only 100,000 Alabama fans spend money on the program in some capacity. You get to 140 million by accounting for 1,400 per fan. Now that's a lot, but considering there's more fans than that, that spend money, it's easy enough to see how those of us that spend a few hundred a year end up contributing to Alabama's supremacy.

    For instance, Alabama is #1 in the SEC in football attendance. Last I checked, Alabama was #1 in the SEC in merch sales. They were #1 in the SEC in non-TV media deals (several times higher than some other schools). So on so forth, so what you get is a program that minus the booster contributions is also #1 in the SEC in revenue. I get why it might feel like our contributions are kind of pointless, but cumulatively they are far from it. We collectively are what helps Alabama distance itself.

    There's also no getting around the fact that if we paid less, that gap would narrow if not vanish altogether.
    Then you best hope they find the cure for greed before the down times hit again because they are going to find out how loyal a starving dog is real quick.

    FWIW most of us donít care about the understandable price increases on merch, concessions, and etc. Its the monopolizing crap and the obvious greedy cash grabs that they needlessly implement. People may grit their teeth and pay it now but what about 10 years from now? 15 years from now? 20? By then we probably will have a 75k seat NFL stadium with how attendance ( actual not dream world) is going. Plus the advancements in technology is making games at home cheaper, comfortable, and very competitive to the actual thing.

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    Re: Tide Pride administrative fee for waiting list

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Then you best hope they find the cure for greed before the down times hit again because they are going to find out how loyal a starving dog is real quick.

    FWIW most of us don’t care about the understandable price increases on merch, concessions, and etc. Its the monopolizing crap and the obvious greedy cash grabs that they needlessly implement. People may grit their teeth and pay it now but what about 10 years from now? 15 years from now? 20? By then we probably will have a 75k seat NFL stadium with how attendance ( actual not dream world) is going. Plus the advancements in technology is making games at home cheaper, comfortable, and very competitive to the actual thing.
    At the end of the day, this does not bother me because this is a luxury. People can gouge me for my luxuries all they want. I have the ability to walk away at no loss to myself or my family. We have bigger problems with greed in this world - real problems that hurt everyone.

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