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  1. #79
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    I would not apologize...
    I like sleeping inside the house I help pay for...
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  2. #80
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I like sleeping inside the house I help pay for...
    LOL, I understand completely. But man, some stuff just needs to be called out.

  3. #81
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    well, they did kill us in the game.

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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    Oh, I have no doubt he (the coach) got something out of it. The guy doing the class actually played professional baseball (minor league level) and I have no doubt was a superb player and is probably a very good coach. However, when you're dealing with youth league players, the instruction has to be on their level. At that age they are still needing basic fundamental instruction. High level instruction does them no good until the fundamentals are properly learned. It's like installing the pretty wood floors and granite counter tops in a house but you've yet to lay the slab (foundation) of the house. Cart before horse type stuff.
    Yes, I see it in education all of the time. We want kids doing geometry in grade school when they still can't add, subtract, multiple, and divide at a competent level. In English, they want kids focused on writing paragraphs and essays and research papers when they don't understand the basics of grammar and sentence structure. It makes no sense. I keep waiting for the next "big thing" movement to be a back to basics movement when they are tired of seeing kids who can't write a basic sentence or do basic math graduate. The tech folks love that we are so dependent upon them because they are laughing all the way to the bank. Look at real estate prices in San Francisco.

  5. #83
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    You know I see a lot of folks here saying the graveyard thing is bush league and great teams donít need silly traditions to remind folks how great they are. But I see nobody mention the fact that it wonít matter if we could beat Western Carolina by 1 or 100 we still will have 60k plus of our fans chanting ďwe beat the hell out of youĒ to a FCS team.

  6. #84
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    You know I see a lot of folks here saying the graveyard thing is bush league and great teams don’t need silly traditions to remind folks how great they are. But I see nobody mention the fact that it won’t matter if we could beat Western Carolina by 1 or 100 we still will have 60k plus of our fans chanting “we beat the hell out of you” to a FCS team.
    Now ya just meddlin'
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  7. #85
    BamaNation All-American theballguy's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    It is silly but I guess in the culture of today (just like it has in the past though we like to hearken back to the "good old days" and pretend it didn't happen) the end justifies the means.

    Win and it doesn't happen.

    I'd like to say it doesn't matter too but it really doesn't matter even if you don't win. Saban probably doesn't do this stuff because ... it's not important.
    ďI know what it takes to win. If I can sell them on what it takes to win, then we are not going to lose too many football games.Ē - Coach Paul Bryant and I can see Coach Nick Saban agreeing completely.

  8. #86
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    You know I see a lot of folks here saying the graveyard thing is bush league and great teams don’t need silly traditions to remind folks how great they are. But I see nobody mention the fact that it won’t matter if we could beat Western Carolina by 1 or 100 we still will have 60k plus of our fans chanting “we beat the hell out of you” to a FCS team.
    Agreed. I personally think the graveyard thing is a little silly but most programs have some silly to ridiculous traditions.

  9. #87
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by RollTide_HTTR View Post
    Agreed. I personally think the graveyard thing is a little silly but most programs have some silly to ridiculous traditions.
    I know many Oklahoma, Washington, and West Virginia fans around me saying ď that is such a dumb and classless tradition for a team that is constantly considered the GOATĒ when our fans sang rammer jammer. Some of our fans think itís a stupid tradition but alot of our fans will argue until they are blue in the face about how itís a tradition that we need to keep.

    But I think my point is that there are many teams that believe that traditions like Rammer Jammer and the TSIO victory cigar should be below a team with our history. But the truth is college football is built around silly over the top traditions that 90% of outside the fan bases that partake in them just donít understand. We donít have to like the rolling of trees, storming fields, making gravestones, or planting flags, but before we say that those traditions are bush league or signs of a mediocre program we might want to consider how our own traditions look to outsiders as well.

    Also imagine if college football was absent of these over the top traditions. I know many here oppose the NFLís atmosphere. Yes I know nfl teams have traditions too, but itís nowhere near the over the top and fun traditions of college. IMO
    Last edited by 81usaf92; March 15th, 2019 at 12:49 PM.

  10. #88

    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    Use it as motivation, not an excuse to pout.
    Agree with the entire post except this - I didn't play, nothing I did had anything to do with the outcome of that game.

    But I can point and laugh at their weak 'graveyard'. That's such a mid-major move it cracks me up.

    No pouting, just pointing and laughing. At Clempson. Again.
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  11. #89
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    See I can't even say they are in the same neighborhood as 95 Nebraska.
    I can - because 95 Nebraska was a very good team, but the credit they've gotten for that year has always boggled my mind.....because NOBODY and I mean NOBODY was suggesting they were this unbeatable juggernaut BEFORE the game.

    Kill Spurrier's high-powered offense and overnight turns into "man, that's the best team ever."

    Hell, they're not even the best NEBRASKA team ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    95 Nebraska does get a lot of credit for the way they destroyed a 12-0 Florida team in the Fiesta Bowl. That looked like Spurrier's best team ever and I do remember a lot of folks, maybe most, expected Florida to win the game. But looking back over the whole season, Nebraska destroyed everyone.
    OK, let's apply that standard. Btw - I know I sound standoffish posting here with you but rest assured it's the frustration of Nebraska and nothing personal with you.

    Nebraska did destroy everyone. And I know we have to be very careful on the SoS argument because Nebraska would not have lost to anyone that particular year. It's not their fault they didn't play a more challenging schedule - seven Big 8 games, Mich St, Arizona St, Wazzu and the throwaway against Pacific probably looked much more challenging when it was scheduled years earlier.

    But the flip side is that the reason losing a Heisman Trophy contender for 1/2 the season didn't hurt (Phillips) is because you could pull any name out of the Bellevue phone book and throw them in there, and the Huskers were still going to score 50 points a game. In 94, Nebraska lost their top two QBs - Frazier and Berringer - to injury and beat 9-win K-State with a third-stringer, Matt Turman.

    I'm not saying it was not a good team, it was - but there's a reason they were the underdog and that most of the pundits picked UF. It was because in context it didn't look as impressive then as it did later.

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    They had one close game, off the top of my head maybe it was Oklahoma State, and they destroyed everyone else.
    TBF, I think you're conflating 1983, when they barely beat OSU by four, with 95 - because NOBODY was close in 1995. They beat Wazzu by 14.

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    Now, it wasn't a great schedule. That was pre-Big 12, so we are talking the old Big 8 days and Oklahoma STUNK back then. They did play a decent Nick Saban coached Michigan State out of conference.
    By Nebraska's pathetic standards, the ATTEMPT to schedule decent opponents in 1995 is admirable. George Perles not only left Saban a mess in East Lansing, Sparty got hit with some major sanctions early in his tenure. Arizona St won the Rose Bowl in 86 and Mich St the next year - so scheduling them was fair.


    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    Clemson struggled a bit last year during the regular season. It's one of the reasons I felt we'd win the game. Not only did they play a weak schedule, but they didn't look like world beaters much of the time.
    They had two close games - one on the road at ATM and a close one to Syracuse. In the latter, their QB went out in the first half with a concussion. In the former, they had a brewing QB controversy that was about to blow up.

    Once the distractions were gone, Clemson was as dominant as we were.


    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    Dominating their final two opponents, who were a combined 26-0, will probably go a long way towards everyone listing them as one of the greatest teams ever, I'm sure. But I'm like you; I think several others should be ranked ahead of them, even teams that had a loss.

    2018 Clemson's ranking will - ironically - depend on what happens in 2019. They need either us or them to win it again. What they "really" need is us to win a colossal blowout for the national title against a highly touted team while Clemson doesn't make the final. Part of the fuel in the Nebraska is great rocket was Florida not only winning the 96 title but blasting Florida State to Kingdom Went. Nebraska was PROBABLY the best team in the country in 1996 as well. But they had a collapse half at Arizona State in September, one of those games similar to our 2017 loss to Auburn - a road loss against a solidly good team where the champ is the victim of circumstance and themselves.

    And then they had the misfortune of playing Texas in the Big 12 title game down a couple of skill position players.


    2018 Clemson will get some votes for no other reason than folks thought entering the game that ALABAMA was the greatest team assembled.


    The greatest team ever never actually played a game. Because the greatest ever is the 2011 Alabama defense with the 2012 Alabama offense.

    It's tough to compare across eras, but I don't think Nebraska was even the best team of the 1990s much less best ever. The 1991 Washington Huskies have as much a claim to that title as Nebraska does.


    They just didn't get the hype because their games start three hours too late for ESPN to actually give a damn about them.
    My New Year's resolution for 2019 is this year I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less, either.

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  12. #90
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    One more thing, and I'll get off the soap box.


    The other problem is that 95 Nebraska has that "defining moment" that shallow nutbags who make their living in television and broadcasting can cite as proof. Keep in mind, it isn't proof of anything save the fact folks can talk a lot. But they have the visual - Tommie Frazier racing down the field with 11 Florida Gators left for dead like an Al Capone hit is out there. They can pull it up. SEE? That's PROOF right there!!!


    Wanna know why 1966 Alabama can't possibly be the greatest ever? Ain't hardly no film. If it didn't happen on camera, it never happened.


    But 95 Nebraska, see, all we have to do is say:
    a) they were awesome and
    b) here's a film clip that shows how awesome they were

    Never mind that one play doesn't define a season no matter how many times the visual media tries to make it.


    Plus, there's always the arrogance that the team I SAW in MY TIME was the best ever. I mean no disrespect to those who have cherished (and painful) memories of the 1966 Alabama team, but I can confidently say it wasn't the greatest team ever, and I mean no disrespect to fans who think it was or to the players who were wronged in the vote. But it was an all-white team playing (almost exclusively) all-white teams in one region of the country during a time when the passing rules were MUCH different (e.g. it was a running game, not a run/pass option), scholarships were not as limited, and training methods and conditioning were light years removed from what we have now. The 2001 Miami Hurricanes - a school I despise with the hatred of a thousand suns - would run roughshod over 1966 Alabama in a football game, and it wouldn't be particularly close. I mean if you put the 66 team IN THEIR PRIME and the 01 team IN THEIR PRIME, it wouldn't be close. Miami would have it in hand pretty early.

    Now, I'm about to get a bunch of "you don't know what you're talking about" truth bombs from people who tell me "I saw them play and you didn't and then the faith healer turned to lay hands on me and blah blah blah..."

    In the context of THEIR TIME, 1966 Alabama was a great team; in the context of ALL TIME, they're not even close.


    But now I've taken away from my point with the "you just HAD to insult 1966 didn't ya" point.


    The visual has created a phony world of great stuff. Granted, it has shown us some great stuff (man on the moon, hands across America, porn, etc). But single images are used as defining moments that are used as arbiters of determining so-called objective truth.

    Let me simplify it with a phrase we heard last fall: "What was Tua's Heisman moment?" That single phrase and the lack of visual HURT Tua badly. He was also hurt by another visual - the awesome bomb he threw last year to win the championship. If he makes THAT throw in the SEC title game this year, he wins the Heisman......despite the fact his stats would "still be less" than Murray, which was the straw man set up to give it to him.

    And that's what we have with 95 Nebraska in particular. How many fans who were adults AT THE TIME (and are not Nebraska fans) can remember anything about Nebraska that year other than: a) Tommie Frazier wow; and b) Lawrence Phillips getting suspended? OK, a few die hards remember the name Brook Berringer but not because of his play in 1995 - they remember his relief in 94 and him dying in a plane crash.

    The visual created the preposterous idea that the greatest moment in baseball history was Cal Ripken passing Gehrig's games played streak. They had a vote on that in 2002, and the result was a joke.

    The visual is why Johnny Wipeout won the Heisman thanks to ONE PLAY in Bryant-Denny Stadium that was a fluke from the word "go."
    The visual (and coverage) is why people think Don Drysdale was a great pitcher. In 1968, he threw six shutouts in a row and was in the news. But that's a fluke stat (to say nothing of the fact the ump gave it to him). Bob Gibson threw THIRTEEN, but that didn't make the news because.....it wasn't in a row.


    Which is more impressive? 13 shutouts? Or 6? Or 8? (This does not take a high IQ to process).

    Let me be clear: 1995 Nebraska was the best team that year and a VERY good overall and balanced team. But their reputation is far beyond what it deserves to be. You can't be the best team of all-time when you weren't even the best team of the decade.



    ===================

    And now we return you to the thread about how great Clemson was last year.
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    Butch Jones has richly earned his title, The Archbishop of Talentbury

    After reading all the horrible things drinking will do to you....I gave up reading.

  13. #91
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson adds a marker to their "graveyard"

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    One more thing, and I'll get off the soap box.


    The other problem is that 95 Nebraska has that "defining moment" that shallow nutbags who make their living in television and broadcasting can cite as proof. Keep in mind, it isn't proof of anything save the fact folks can talk a lot. But they have the visual - Tommie Frazier racing down the field with 11 Florida Gators left for dead like an Al Capone hit is out there. They can pull it up. SEE? That's PROOF right there!!!


    Wanna know why 1966 Alabama can't possibly be the greatest ever? Ain't hardly no film. If it didn't happen on camera, it never happened.


    But 95 Nebraska, see, all we have to do is say:
    a) they were awesome and
    b) here's a film clip that shows how awesome they were

    Never mind that one play doesn't define a season no matter how many times the visual media tries to make it.


    Plus, there's always the arrogance that the team I SAW in MY TIME was the best ever. I mean no disrespect to those who have cherished (and painful) memories of the 1966 Alabama team, but I can confidently say it wasn't the greatest team ever, and I mean no disrespect to fans who think it was or to the players who were wronged in the vote. But it was an all-white team playing (almost exclusively) all-white teams in one region of the country during a time when the passing rules were MUCH different (e.g. it was a running game, not a run/pass option), scholarships were not as limited, and training methods and conditioning were light years removed from what we have now. The 2001 Miami Hurricanes - a school I despise with the hatred of a thousand suns - would run roughshod over 1966 Alabama in a football game, and it wouldn't be particularly close. I mean if you put the 66 team IN THEIR PRIME and the 01 team IN THEIR PRIME, it wouldn't be close. Miami would have it in hand pretty early.

    Now, I'm about to get a bunch of "you don't know what you're talking about" truth bombs from people who tell me "I saw them play and you didn't and then the faith healer turned to lay hands on me and blah blah blah..."

    In the context of THEIR TIME, 1966 Alabama was a great team; in the context of ALL TIME, they're not even close.


    But now I've taken away from my point with the "you just HAD to insult 1966 didn't ya" point.


    The visual has created a phony world of great stuff. Granted, it has shown us some great stuff (man on the moon, hands across America, porn, etc). But single images are used as defining moments that are used as arbiters of determining so-called objective truth.

    Let me simplify it with a phrase we heard last fall: "What was Tua's Heisman moment?" That single phrase and the lack of visual HURT Tua badly. He was also hurt by another visual - the awesome bomb he threw last year to win the championship. If he makes THAT throw in the SEC title game this year, he wins the Heisman......despite the fact his stats would "still be less" than Murray, which was the straw man set up to give it to him.

    And that's what we have with 95 Nebraska in particular. How many fans who were adults AT THE TIME (and are not Nebraska fans) can remember anything about Nebraska that year other than: a) Tommie Frazier wow; and b) Lawrence Phillips getting suspended? OK, a few die hards remember the name Brook Berringer but not because of his play in 1995 - they remember his relief in 94 and him dying in a plane crash.

    The visual created the preposterous idea that the greatest moment in baseball history was Cal Ripken passing Gehrig's games played streak. They had a vote on that in 2002, and the result was a joke.

    The visual is why Johnny Wipeout won the Heisman thanks to ONE PLAY in Bryant-Denny Stadium that was a fluke from the word "go."
    The visual (and coverage) is why people think Don Drysdale was a great pitcher. In 1968, he threw six shutouts in a row and was in the news. But that's a fluke stat (to say nothing of the fact the ump gave it to him). Bob Gibson threw THIRTEEN, but that didn't make the news because.....it wasn't in a row.


    Which is more impressive? 13 shutouts? Or 6? Or 8? (This does not take a high IQ to process).

    Let me be clear: 1995 Nebraska was the best team that year and a VERY good overall and balanced team. But their reputation is far beyond what it deserves to be. You can't be the best team of all-time when you weren't even the best team of the decade.



    ===================

    And now we return you to the thread about how great Clemson was last year.
    I thatís where I am with 2018 Clemson, they are probably behind 2015 Bama, 2014 Ohio St, and even 2016 Clemson for the team of the decade.

    I think the 95 Nebraska team gets way too much praise because everyone wanted Tom Osborne to have THAT team that CPB, Switzer, Johnson, and Bowden had to establish a legendary status. Otherwise he was the guy that choked away more than what he won at the big dance, and won only to teams that had no business being there.

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