Mass shooting at mosque in New Zealand (Please no videos)

TIDE-HSV

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It wasn't meant to be cute. Obama caused as much division as Trump. I can't stand either one.
You are correct. The very ugly fact is that he caused the division with something over which he had no control whatsoever - his face was that of a black man. Racists couldn't digest it, wouldn't accept it, and still don't. It's race. Deny it forever, if you wish, but that's the hideous truth...
 

92tide

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It wasn't meant to be cute. Obama caused as much division as Trump. I can't stand either one.
i have seen at least one australian senator who is making the point that the muslims in new zealand caused the division. same thing here in the us with a few of the gop.
 
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chanson78

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It wasn't meant to be cute. Obama caused as much division as Trump. I can't stand either one.
Expecting equal protection and fairness for everyone isn’t usually called being divisive. I know Fox News and the right leaning talk radio loved talking up how Obama was the most divisive figure ever but I have an article that I feel articulately explains the reality of the situation.

https://theweek.com/articles/599246/republicans-say-obama-been-historically-divisive-thats-revealing
 

Bazza

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What do you think? Why do you think he went to NZ?
Good question. You may be right about the guns. I'm sure we'll hear and know more about this in the coming weeks.

I did find this from a CNN article:

Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel said the suspect targeted New Zealand for its reputation for being a safe space.

"This sort of extremism is not something that we've seen here. But he is not from here," she said. "He came here with hate in his heart and intention to kill in his mind. So he did not develop his hatred here. He came here to perform this act of terrorism."

How Tarrant got his guns


The shooter used five guns, including two semi-automatic weapons and two shotguns -- weapons that were legally acquired, Ardern said.
The Prime Minister said the shooter had a "Category A" firearm license, obtained in November 2017. According to police, a standard firearms license allows the holder to obtain any number of sporting rifles and shotguns.
Authorities said that at least one of the guns used in the shootings appeared to have been modified.
New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has vowed to amend New Zealand's gun laws -- considered relatively relaxed compared to most western nations outside of the US --- in response to the attack.
 

TIDE-HSV

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It wasn't meant to be cute. Obama caused as much division as Trump. I can't stand either one.
My roots in Cullman County go back to earliest days of the 1800s. There were no blacks in Cullman when I was a kid. In 2000, the black population of Cullman County was .7%. Read this article. The "Tom Drake" mentioned in the article was a friend of mine from law school...


Sundown signs in Cullman County
 

Bazza

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The answer is that he could not have acquired the guns in Australia. You can draw your own conclusions from there...
In that case, I will stand by my original post:


You can debate gun control and policy all you want.

The reality is there are some people in this world who have very dark hearts.

Some would say they are heartless.

What aside from gun control and policy do you do about that?
 

92tide

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In that case, I will stand by my original post:


You can debate gun control and policy all you want.

The reality is there are some people in this world who have very dark hearts.

Some would say they are heartless.

What aside from gun control and policy do you do about that?
why do you continue to think that gun control and policy are not part of the problem?
 

Bazza

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Besides the most commonly suggested thing to fix a problem, how do you fix that problem?
My opinion is there will always be those with a dark heart and no matter what you do you will never stop them.

Additionally, as with other concerns of a society - the politics of it seems to distract more than actually address the overall issues.

I mean - it's the year 2019 and despite having politicians and lawmakers working around the clock in our behalf.....the problem still exists.

Why?
 

chanson78

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My opinion is there will always be those with a dark heart and no matter what you do you will never stop them.

Additionally, as with other concerns of a society - the politics of it seems to distract more than actually address the overall issues.

I mean - it's the year 2019 and despite having politicians and lawmakers working around the clock in our behalf.....the problem still exists.

Why?
You’re essentially asking, why are people screwed up, and how do we fix it. If that isn’t the gist of your question, then I apologize.

You’ve asked questions like this before, and I’ve attempted to be thoughtful in my response, and the conversation usually ends with a “thanks!” or a “hmm I hadn’t thought about that.” I’ll try again, knowing I’m probably wasting my time but I’ve got some free time.

Besides removing access to tools that make it incredibly easy to inflict mass damage and harm on people with very little training, the only options that remain are all societal in nature.

Most people do these acts out of a misplaced sense of being wronged.

This group has made me feel less than them due to <insert whatever reason worms into their brain>. Whether it is a feeling of lost future opportunity with the opposite sex, or the feeling of not owning the things they think they should own, or the feeling of not having the respect deserved, it is almost always a result of some feeling of powerless to remedy their current situation with traditional methods.

Lonely because no women will talk to you? It’s easier to blame them as all being stuck up <insert derogatory term> and that they deserve to be punished. Instead of taking some time for self reflection and realizing you’re a jerk and not very nice to women.

Upset because you lost your job at the coal plant? Blame a tree hugger and liberals in general and find some way to punish them. Instead of realizing that the same subsidies that used to prop up coal are now being funneled to the natural gas industry and coal is not as cheap.

Upset because the sweet gravy train you had by being a white dude isn’t as easy as it used to be for your dad or granddad? Blame an uppity brown person or group of brown people because if they weren’t coming into your country everything would go back to the way it was. Nevermind the fact that globalization is effectively making humans the least efficient way of performing work, and even if you kept all the browns out, your life still wouldn’t be as good as your parents without putting in vastly more work.

So given all the scenarios above, I can imagine you realize I don’t have a very high opinion of the reasoning behind most of these types of situations. Right now in society, we have a tendency to look for black and white solutions to increasingly gray problems. Politicians are elected by dumbing down problems so they become binary in nature. Society increasingly values people on what they own and are willing to complain about or provide praise for, over the substance of ones thoughts.
Until people realize that Instagram, movies, and TV are not depictions of reality, our perception of our own status in the world will continue to get skewed and our place within that society will continue to appear as if the majority of people are losing ground, when it seems that everyone we see is gaining it. This comes down to a lack of community that is continuing to shrink as the ever connected world allows people to form ever smaller insular communities of like minded people, thereby making all problems seem as simple as black and white. “If they don’t agree, just shoot em!”

Please don’t nterpret the above as me saying “Its that darn media! Both sides! AMIRITE?” That isn’t what I was getting at, at all.

Given everything I’ve said, what are your thoughts on solving the problem of crazy people wanting to kill other people by using firearms? Without considering the limitation of firearms obviously. Because I mean, a gun is just a tool, right? If he didn’t have access to guns, it is obvious that he would have still killed all those people.

Here are some alternative headlines:

49 dead in terrorist mass scissoring at Christchurch mosque.
Man uses hammer to kill 49 people in 5 minutes at mosque.
 

Bazza

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You’re essentially asking, why are people screwed up, and how do we fix it. If that isn’t the gist of your question, then I apologize.---snip---
Great post - I agree with much of what you are saying. The point I was trying to make is there are other issues than gun control and you mentioned some of them.

You and I will no doubt be attacked for attacking the media, but I would like to see more conversation similar to your comments.

I never said to stop talking about gun control - nor did you.

I also don't think we can ever stop mass shootings, no matter what.

This guy did a lot of traveling from what I read. Also spent a fair amount of time online. I don't know what was going on inside his head. Obviously he was very angry.
 

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