Mass shooting at mosque in New Zealand (Please no videos)
- Thread starter Crimson1967
- Start date
Like I stated, I actually agree with some of his logic behind his ideas. But at the end, I think they're too extreme. I've hunted in hunting clubs where there were guys who in my opinion, had ZERO business not only hunting. But owning a firearm. In one of the leases I was in (before kids) we had to dismiss two guys from the lease due to recklessness with their firearms that put all of us in danger. So yeah, I can understand the reasoning behind his ideas. I just feel they are too extreme.
As I stated above, when having this argument there needs to be a tension and balance to ensure no solution goes to extremes. Do I think Meth-head Marty should be able to walk into an Academy Sports and buy an AR-15, unlimited rounds like he's buying a pack of gum? Heck no. But I also don't think the idea of the government passing down a law that states each citizen is only able to own one .38 pistol and one single shot 12 gauge is good either. So when having the conversation of gun control there needs to be people ensuring we don't go to either of the above extremes, IMO.
I meant what caused gun ownership to become so widespread.
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You mean handguns? The percentage of ownership of long guns has gone down since 1950...
I think you're talking about the change to more pistols being carried. I don't think you can really point to any one thing. Gang violence started incorporating them more and more, movies in the 60s/70s started showing them a lot more (Westerns, movies like Deathwish, Shaft, Dirty Harry etc), drug trade and even some of the bootlegging trade in the South probably contributed. I'm sure there were quite a few other contributors.
I agree, cultural shifts in a lot of areas is probably the most accurate answer.
I'll admit that the first handgun I bought, a Walther PPK, was because of the Bond movies. It was lousy. The first three jammed repeatedly. They finally traded me a S&W .38 Chief Special, with full dollar allowance for the last PPK...
I think the changes in manufacturing and marketing of handguns is a huge reason for increased ownership. Glock was revolutionary and others followed. Semi auto handguns have become as reliable as revolvers. Plus they are available in different calibers . polymer frames have made guns lighter, easier to carry. changeable backstraps and side grip panels to personalize to your hand size. Plus easy to color and market to different segments of society like pink and purple hand guns marketed to women. FDE colored guns piggybacking from desert wars .
Or the person should set off a bomb like the majority of terrorist attacks in the world. The dude in New Zealand liked the access to guns but if he wanted to, he could have built an explosive device and killed plenty.
True. But we actually license and monitor bomb-making materials very closely here, which is probably why that is a very uncommon mode of attack. Some might argue that such restrictions impede the "citizen-soldier's" ability to resist the gubmnent, but I'm glad that the U.S. doesn't look like Baghdad.
No idea if New Zealand does the same, but I imagine most of our allies do. That's probably one reason why vehicles and knives are used by most terrorist attacks in Europe, where guns and bombs are largely unavailable.
IIRC, ISIS even urged vehicle attacks in Europe. Almost as much damage as with a gun...
Once again I'd point out that perspective is in order when discussing restricting an enumerated right of the people.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report of 2017, 467 people were killed with “blunt objects (hammers, clubs, etc.), while 403 were killed were rifles. Out of 15,129 murders in the US in 2017, 403 were killed with rifles - 2.6%.
In 2016, the FBI reported that 374 people were murdered with rifles while 656 were murdered via "hands, fists, feet, etc." and 1,798 people via "other weapons" (they didn't itemize until 2017). So again, in 2016 rifles accounted for 2.4% of 14,976 murders.
Say what you wish, but we're talking about reducing the rights of millions of law abiding citizens in order to address a minuscule percentage of crime here.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report of 2017, 467 people were killed with “blunt objects (hammers, clubs, etc.), while 403 were killed were rifles. Out of 15,129 murders in the US in 2017, 403 were killed with rifles - 2.6%.
In 2016, the FBI reported that 374 people were murdered with rifles while 656 were murdered via "hands, fists, feet, etc." and 1,798 people via "other weapons" (they didn't itemize until 2017). So again, in 2016 rifles accounted for 2.4% of 14,976 murders.
Say what you wish, but we're talking about reducing the rights of millions of law abiding citizens in order to address a minuscule percentage of crime here.
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If we dig a little deeper into 2017, we find that 154 people were killed in what are commonly referred to as 'mass shootings' (generally defined as four or more killed, excluding gang-related killings). Most shootings utilized more than one weapon type, virtually all of which included handguns of some sort. Details of the killings often do not include which weapon type was used to kill each victim in these mass shootings, so it's difficult to discern how many times rifles were used vs handguns or shotguns, but at least 32 deaths occurred exclusively by handgun or shotgun.
So with regards to mass shootings (which is when these 'ban the AR15' discussions always arise), we see that in 2017, out of 15,129 murders in the US, at most 122 people were killed in a mass shooting by a rifle of any kind. And that number is almost certainly lower, as most mass-shooters also carried handguns - the deduction of the 32 deaths referenced above were only in cases where the shooter used exclusively shotguns or handguns in the mass killing. That means all rifles (not just the so-called 'military style' rifles) account for 0.8% of the mass murders in the US in 2017.
Again, perspective.
So with regards to mass shootings (which is when these 'ban the AR15' discussions always arise), we see that in 2017, out of 15,129 murders in the US, at most 122 people were killed in a mass shooting by a rifle of any kind. And that number is almost certainly lower, as most mass-shooters also carried handguns - the deduction of the 32 deaths referenced above were only in cases where the shooter used exclusively shotguns or handguns in the mass killing. That means all rifles (not just the so-called 'military style' rifles) account for 0.8% of the mass murders in the US in 2017.
Again, perspective.
Yes, I realize this and New Zealand likely pays attention as well. However, there are many materials available that are not so easily tracked and can be used for bombs though more difficult to accumulate in large quantities. Take away guns then bombings and vehicles would likely come into play even more for terrorists.
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Yeah, two of the biggest mass murder events - the Virginia Tech shooting and the Luby's Massacre - involved handguns. The shooting at Luby's was particularly striking because many of the victims had guns, but the law at the time did not allow them to carry. People obeyed the law and had their guns in their cars when George Hennard started the killing.
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