AAF may fold - Page 16
Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 6910111213141516
Results 196 to 202 of 202

Thread: AAF may fold

  1. #196
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,620

    Re: AAF may fold

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot172000 View Post
    Rumors for a long time were that he only wanted the technology tied to a new gambling app and looked to do away with the league once this was acquired. I took that to be the case and made the comment about corporate raiding.
    If we follow the bankruptcy proceedings that might unravel this part of the mystery. As I understand it, the property (unless it's blocked) will go up for auction if debts are not paid:
    "Chapter 7, also called "liquidation" or "straight bankruptcy," is the process by which a debtor's assets are sold, creditors receive payment, and you are then free from your debts"

    We'll see if what's his face manages to protect the intellectual property or not, and what lengths he goes to do that. That's one thing that should become clearer, because I was openly perplexed when he basically bought the league. If it does go all the way through Chapter 7 proceedings, we are left with nothing but the league being a colossal failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot172000 View Post
    It is almost an impossible task to compete with both the NFL and College Football for die hard fans.
    I believe you are correct and this probably lead to the first set of investors vanishing. 30 million was spent getting to launch, something must have spooked them (perhaps things like this: "only $78,582 in licenses, franchises and royalties"). Despite one poster's assertions I lacked understanding of the issue, I made a post about why this venture was likely to fail, before the financial troubles were known. You and I seem to be outlining similar issues. It should be noted that the AAF was not pre-revenue, they were not losing money simply because they weren't trying to monetize anything, once the product launched in week one that ended. They were still losing money because they didn't have enough engagement.

    Not replying to you necessarily, but Ebersol screwed up by not having concrete investing lined up and not being on the same page with the ones he did have. Ebersol spoke of an exit strategy, so I have to wonder if he saw being bought out by the NFL as an exit strategy? Perhaps hoping to hang on just long enough to prove some sort of viability to the NFL, one of the only entities that might actually might want a property losing money on a weekly basis? I'm not sure a lot of people understand the extent that the minor leagues you mentioned, and even many college football programs are subsidized. If the fans aren't paying enough to keep the lights on, someone else has to.

    That's the part I still am curious about. Even if the tech itself held value, there's no need to fund a league for years to that end (corporate raiding would explain why it was shut down). That part doesn't explain Ebersol's plan. He had to imagine some rich party coming in and throwing money at them down the road if his strategy was in fact to sustain this burn rate, but why and for what? At the end of the day I guess the investors didn't get that either and that's why both sets refused to continue the funding (hockey team guy could have kept funding the league and retained ownership of the tech if he wanted).

    So, we know for a fact, that two different set of investors did not think it was worthwhile to continue funding. We know it continued to lose money. We do not however, have any real idea of how Ebersol actually expected to make it profitable and that remains the big mystery.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  2. #197
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sylacauga,AL
    Posts
    10,492

    Re: AAF may fold

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post

    We do not however, have any real idea of how Ebersol actually expected to make it profitable and that remains the big mystery.
    No actually we do. Ebersol always wanted an investor like Dundon from the start to establish a line of credit for 3 years, and then after the next collective bargaining agreement make a pitch to the NFL. The problems really started to happen once handshake deals proved to be non deals. His initial investor only paid a 1/4 of what he promised, and then he was desperate enough to get Dundon. Ebersol is too proud to admit that he is a horrible businessman, and was suckered into trusting a known con man.

    Would it have worked? probably not, but that was clearly how Ebersol expected to be profitable.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

    Hannibal

  3. #198
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,620

    Re: AAF may fold

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Would it have worked? probably not, but that was clearly how Ebersol expected to be profitable.
    Did Ebersol come out and say that or is that just knowledgeable speculation? Not disputing your account and I've believed all along that the NFL might have been their saving grace, but I didn't see where he explicitly stated that. I mean at least there's some logic to it, but still a massive risk without assurances in advance. The thing is I'm left looking at him a bit like he was a con man. No one spends 30 million then backs out unless they didn't like what they were seeing. When funding was cut they had to understand the money spent could become a complete loss. You don't do that unless you're feeling really bad about the situation.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  4. #199
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sylacauga,AL
    Posts
    10,492

    Re: AAF may fold

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Did Ebersol come out and say that or is that just knowledgeable speculation?.
    A bit of both. It has been noted that Ebersol actually believed Reggie Fowler was going to give him the cash flow (the same guy that tried to buy the Vikings but we found out he didn't have enough to even really put his name up for bid)

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Not disputing your account and I've believed all along that the NFL might have been their saving grace, but I didn't see where he explicitly stated that. I mean at least there's some logic to it, but still a massive risk without assurances in advance. .
    Ebersol and Polian have said it often that they were waiting for the next collective bargaining agreement to try to get a firm commitment from the NFL about being a feeder league, but Dundon was trying to get that agreement 2-3 years ahead of that period.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

    Hannibal

  5. #200
    BamaNation First Team
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Winnsboro, LA
    Posts
    408

    Re: AAF may fold

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    If we follow the bankruptcy proceedings that might unravel this part of the mystery. As I understand it, the property (unless it's blocked) will go up for auction if debts are not paid:
    "Chapter 7, also called "liquidation" or "straight bankruptcy," is the process by which a debtor's assets are sold, creditors receive payment, and you are then free from your debts"

    We'll see if what's his face manages to protect the intellectual property or not, and what lengths he goes to do that. That's one thing that should become clearer, because I was openly perplexed when he basically bought the league. If it does go all the way through Chapter 7 proceedings, we are left with nothing but the league being a colossal failure.

    I believe you are correct and this probably lead to the first set of investors vanishing. 30 million was spent getting to launch, something must have spooked them (perhaps things like this: "only $78,582 in licenses, franchises and royalties"). Despite one poster's assertions I lacked understanding of the issue, I made a post about why this venture was likely to fail, before the financial troubles were known. You and I seem to be outlining similar issues. It should be noted that the AAF was not pre-revenue, they were not losing money simply because they weren't trying to monetize anything, once the product launched in week one that ended. They were still losing money because they didn't have enough engagement.

    Not replying to you necessarily, but Ebersol screwed up by not having concrete investing lined up and not being on the same page with the ones he did have. Ebersol spoke of an exit strategy, so I have to wonder if he saw being bought out by the NFL as an exit strategy? Perhaps hoping to hang on just long enough to prove some sort of viability to the NFL, one of the only entities that might actually might want a property losing money on a weekly basis? I'm not sure a lot of people understand the extent that the minor leagues you mentioned, and even many college football programs are subsidized. If the fans aren't paying enough to keep the lights on, someone else has to.

    That's the part I still am curious about. Even if the tech itself held value, there's no need to fund a league for years to that end (corporate raiding would explain why it was shut down). That part doesn't explain Ebersol's plan. He had to imagine some rich party coming in and throwing money at them down the road if his strategy was in fact to sustain this burn rate, but why and for what? At the end of the day I guess the investors didn't get that either and that's why both sets refused to continue the funding (hockey team guy could have kept funding the league and retained ownership of the tech if he wanted).

    So, we know for a fact, that two different set of investors did not think it was worthwhile to continue funding. We know it continued to lose money. We do not however, have any real idea of how Ebersol actually expected to make it profitable and that remains the big mystery.

    We will see all or most of the cards during the Bankruptcy Proceedings. He can't dispose of the technology with a pending bankruptcy, but these are trade secrets we are talking about. Those can't simply be put back in the bag so to speak.

    As for the second comment about Ebersol, I honestly think he was trying to build a startup to sell to the NFL and failed out the gate. Why the heck are you talking exit strategy from the get go? He had only one possible customer who could buy his goods and he is talking about getting out? That's a horrible business practice. I did a marketing analysis on Birmingham and Memphis yesterday and they are on par with Green Bay, Jacksonville and New Orleans as sports towns. But the difference between the NFL and an XFL/CFL/AAF is the brand power and external revenue. People buy the NFL because its the NFL and its brand power sells merchandising. The brand alone would sell t-shirts and hats in towns like Memphis and B-Ham. The tv revenue has always floated small market teams and probably always will. The larger market teams subsidize the smaller ones. The Big guys need the little guys to fill a schedule and get their own product out. In a minor league situation like this where there is no subsidizing from another established league there are very few alternative income sources. This is especially true when there are no large markets to draw income from. They were hanging their hats on sports gambling and felt that it would take about three years to establish a trusted enough brand to generate revenue from that source.

  6. #201
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Where ever there's BBQ, Crawfish & Football
    Posts
    24,078

    Re: AAF may fold

    Yep, I thought the same thing from the very start. The goal of this venture was to sell it to the NFL from the get go. This wasn't intended to be a long term, self sustaining league.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot172000 View Post
    We will see all or most of the cards during the Bankruptcy Proceedings. He can't dispose of the technology with a pending bankruptcy, but these are trade secrets we are talking about. Those can't simply be put back in the bag so to speak.

    As for the second comment about Ebersol, I honestly think he was trying to build a startup to sell to the NFL and failed out the gate. Why the heck are you talking exit strategy from the get go? He had only one possible customer who could buy his goods and he is talking about getting out? That's a horrible business practice. I did a marketing analysis on Birmingham and Memphis yesterday and they are on par with Green Bay, Jacksonville and New Orleans as sports towns. But the difference between the NFL and an XFL/CFL/AAF is the brand power and external revenue. People buy the NFL because its the NFL and its brand power sells merchandising. The brand alone would sell t-shirts and hats in towns like Memphis and B-Ham. The tv revenue has always floated small market teams and probably always will. The larger market teams subsidize the smaller ones. The Big guys need the little guys to fill a schedule and get their own product out. In a minor league situation like this where there is no subsidizing from another established league there are very few alternative income sources. This is especially true when there are no large markets to draw income from. They were hanging their hats on sports gambling and felt that it would take about three years to establish a trusted enough brand to generate revenue from that source.
    The existence of God isn't determined in the thoughts of man. God exists, no matter what man thinks.

    "It cost a lot of money to look this cheap."-Dolly Parton.

    "If you ever want to know how good your barbecue is start charging for it"-Myron Mixon

  7. #202
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,824

    Re: AAF may fold

    Looks like the Iron skipped town owing half of Birmingham money.

    https://trib.al/dh0gGgU


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

TideFansStore.com Bama Gear

2019 NFL Draft Gear