Crimson 1967 got me to thinking. With Les Miles and Mack Brown back on the sideline, that now makes five active coaches that have won national championships, the others being Coach Saban, Dabo and Jimbo Fisher.
What's your top 10 list look like? Does it have Lincoln Riley, Brian Kelly, Tom Herman, David Shaw, Kirby Smart, Chris Petersen, Mark Dantonio, James Franklin, Harbaugh? Does the last coach to beat Coach Saban other than Dabo make your list? That would be Gus Malzahn.
What about the coaches that seem to do more with less: Pat Fitzgerald, David Cutcliffe, Bill Snyder?
What's your top 10 list look like?
How to explain #2 over #3 objectively?1. Saban, of course
2. Peterson
3. Dabo
4. Shaw
5. Patterson
6. Jimbo
7. Jeff Monken
8. L. Riley
9. B. Harsen
10. F. Solich
LSU fired him for losing to Alabama. Orgeron will also get fired for losing to Saban, no matter how many other games he wins.The funny thing about Les getting fired was, he was doing the exact same things as coach only he was losing the games he had been winning. His quirkiness and boneheaded late game calls were fine when he was winning them. When he started losing them L8U wanted him fired.
What Peterson does with his level of talent. Kudos to Dabo for his recruiting, though. It is very close in my opinion, and I almost took the cop-out and made then 2A and 2B. Bottom line, if Saban announced his retirement today, I'd rather have Peterson. Just a personal choice though.How to explain #2 over #3 objectively?
Shaw took over in 2011, meaning we can use the "but he had the other guy's players for 11, 12, and 13.David Shaw has only beaten 1 Top 10, and 3 ranked opponents in the last 3 years. I think it’s pretty obvious that after Harbaugh’s recruits left Shaw has been playing with borrowed time in a weak division waiting for someone like Peterson to take control.
you're correct, but so is B1G. The 2016 loss to Auburn was "really" about the 2015 loss to Alabama....and 2014......and 2013......and 2012........and 2011........The funny thing about Les getting fired was, he was doing the exact same things as coach only he was losing the games he had been winning. His quirkiness and boneheaded late game calls were fine when he was winning them. When he started losing them L8U wanted him fired.
Yes but here is the kicker. Malzahn plays in a conference and subdivision that is far more challenging than Stanford. Stanford only has to win one hard game to get into the PAC 12 championship but that game is nowhere near the two games that await Gus at the end of the year even if you reduce it to one. Yes Shaw has ND but that game doesn’t really matter.Shaw took over in 2011, meaning we can use the "but he had the other guy's players for 11, 12, and 13.
Since then, he's gone 48-19 (.716)
In 2015 (four years ago), he went 5-0 against ranked teams and 3-0 against the top ten teams. In fact, he had a substantially easier time with Iowa than did Mark Dantonio.
Yes, he's 10-12 against ranked teams.
But there's another variable: Stanford's academic standards are substantially more than most schools, which automatically puts him at a disadvantage.
Not to sound like I'm beating a dead horse here, but...
Gus Malzahn 2014-2018: 41-26, 0 SEC titles, 1 division title, 11-17 vs ranked teams
David Shaw 2014-2018: 48-19, 1 Pac 10 title, 2 division titles, 10-12 vs ranked teams
Now.....put Malzahn and his style of high school garbage at Stanford with the limitations Shaw has......and put Shaw at Auburn......and tell me who has the better record and is the better football coach?
Yes, I've excluded 2013 for two reasons. First, to set aside the "but Harbaugh" argument but then again Malzahn's 2013 team as seniors won a national title as freshmen, so who exactly inherited the better squad? Secondly, the distance isn't so far as BOTH Shaw AND Malzahn were both OCs on what was basically the team they inherited.
So if we include 2013.....
Malzahn is 53-27, Shaw is 59-22 and each adds a conference title and a bowl game loss (although Malzahn gets credit for a national title appearance).
I'm not as averse as a lot of Tide fans to Gus, I like his enthusiasm. I also think he's another Lincoln Riley type coach (at least so far) who coaches "defense optional."
Yes but here is the kicker. Malzahn plays in a conference and subdivision that is far more challenging than Stanford.
The problem is Gus has to win those but - for the most part - he doesn't. If the argument is "Malzahn has to play X and lose to them," I'm sure Shaw could lose to both UGA and Alabama as well.Stanford only has to win one hard game to get into the PAC 12 championship but that game is nowhere near the two games that await Gus at the end of the year even if you reduce it to one. Yes Shaw has ND but that game doesn’t really matter.
Most of Nick Saban's proteges have flopped as well. It doesn't prove much of anything.But the second kicker is that Shaw’s protege is already showing that his style probably doesn’t translate well in the SEC. He is practically a mirror image of a shaw team without California talent going against PAC 12 talent.
Yes, and he also had the good fortune to be in the SEC East when he got to replace a West team with Missouri (one win), Urban Meyer left (one win), Derek Dooley and Butch Jones were at Tennessee (two wins), caught Auburn in the 3-9 down draft of 2012 (who replaced Alabama on their schedule that year) for another win, and caught UGA in Richt's twilight.Vandy is under the same limitations as Stanford but is scratching for wins. Franklin was there for 3 years and won 9 games back to back years.
A few posts ago the argument was "But Harbaugh's players." Now that that argument has been shown to be less than 100% accurate it's "but Stanford doesn't play anybody."Point is Patterson and Shaw are probably way overvalued based off their early success against a weakened subdivision or conference.
Uh, Cal hasn't beaten Stanford in football since 2009 when Jim Harbaugh's players lost to them.Gus is facing monsters every week. Losing to a LSU and Miss st is a lot different than losing a game to Cal.
Actually it’s both “ he is living off Harbaugh” and “plays in a weak subdivision”.Far more challenging, I doubt. More challenging? Indisputable.
But again NONE of those schools have the academic admissions requirements that Stanford does. Some in his own league have similar ones (insert USC Lori Loughlin scandal joke here).
But Shaw pulling off what he has done is just a step below if the Air Force Academy was in the hunt.
The problem is Gus has to win those but - for the most part - he doesn't. If the argument is "Malzahn has to play X and lose to them," I'm sure Shaw could lose to both UGA and Alabama as well.
Could he beat them? Probably if given time.
Most of Nick Saban's proteges have flopped as well. It doesn't prove much of anything.
Yes, and he also had the good fortune to be in the SEC East when he got to replace a West team with Missouri (one win), Urban Meyer left (one win), Derek Dooley and Butch Jones were at Tennessee (two wins), caught Auburn in the 3-9 down draft of 2012 (who replaced Alabama on their schedule that year) for another win, and caught UGA in Richt's twilight.
I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but Franklin damn near lost to App State this last year with a team that was supposed to be a national title contender.
A few posts ago the argument was "But Harbaugh's players." Now that that argument has been shown to be less than 100% accurate it's "but Stanford doesn't play anybody."
I don't disagree with the fact that the SEC is a tougher conference year-in and year-out than the Pac 12.
But that's not the REAL question.
Could David Shaw come to Auburn and win eight games a year like Malzahn does?
Yup. Could Malzahn go and win 9 or 10 in the Pac 12 like Shaw does WITHE THE LIMITATIONS? I don't think so.
Uh, Cal hasn't beaten Stanford in football since 2009 when Jim Harbaugh's players lost to them.
Actually it’s both “ he is living off Harbaugh” and “plays in a weak subdivision”.
For the 1st: it’s indisputable that his first 3 years are his best. He went 3 straight big Bowls and had two PAC 12 championships. Since then 1 PAC 12 championships and 1 Rose Bowl appearance.
Weak subdivision: In the past three years Peterson has achieved 3 straight NY6 bowl appearances without tapping into Sarks recruits. I mean Washington is about just a little better than The Mississippis I guess but they are pretty much dominating the PAC 12. I mean you really don’t have USC, UCLA, and Oregon to worry about at the same time anymore. It’s now beat Washington and you are in very good shape as long as you don’t find away to blow a game against USC.
But here is another thing, Auburn and Stanford had a common opponent last year... even if you want to make the argument that it’s 1st game vs late season it still doesn’t answer why the three weeks prior to playoffs them that both Cal and Oregon beat Washington but David Shaw couldn’t.
As for losing to Cal... fine I got Washington mixed up with Stanford, but I’ll replace it with something better. “ losing to either SAN DIEGO ST or Utah isn’t the same as losing to Arkansas or Tennessee”. Gus’s 2 worst losses are 2015 vs Arkansas and 2018 vs Tennessee, I don’t think either of them would lose to 2014 Utah or 2017 SDSU. Even if you try to say UCF, UCF was light years better than that team that beat Shaw in San Diego.
Outside the top 5 it’s really a load of average to slightly above coaches. So I guess it really doesn’t matter as long as you get 4 out of 5 of the top 5 right.Look - we don't see eye to eye on this and that's fine.
I'm not gonna argue who's the tenth best coach in CFB...
:O