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  1. #53
    BamaNation All-SEC CoachJeff's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by FairlyAmazing View Post
    Alabama hasn't gone anywhere.

    Clemson has simply been improving steadily over the last 8 or 9 years.
    If not for Clemson Alabama would be working on their 5th title in a row this fall and 8th title in the past 11 years.

    If not for Bama Clemson would be working on their 4th title in 5 years.
    ----
    B.A. from The University of Alabama (during the Fran/Shula years) so don't question my fandom.

  2. #54
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachJeff View Post
    Who is the #1 program right now?
    The top 2 programs are Alabama and Clemson. Who is number 1 depends on how you define "the number 1 program right now".

    #1 program and reigning national champions are not the same thing IMO.

  3. #55
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by RollTide_HTTR View Post
    The top 2 programs are Alabama and Clemson. Who is number 1 depends on how you define "the number 1 program right now".

    #1 program and reigning national champions are not the same thing IMO.
    Yeah I guess he probably says the Patriots weren’t the top program in the AFC and the NFL since 2001 because there were 8 SBs and 5 AFCCGs that they weren’t in.

  4. #56
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    "#1 program and reigning national champions are not the same thing IMO."


    One is subjective and one is not.

  5. #57
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachJeff View Post
    If not for Clemson Alabama would be working on their 5th title in a row this fall and 8th title in the past 11 years.

    If not for Bama Clemson would be working on their 4th title in 5 years.
    If not for two incredible plays by the Giants, Brady and Belichick would have 8 SBs with the Patriots.... but I guess the Giants and the Steelers were the #1 teams since they had more SBs between 2005-13 than anyone else even though the Patriots were still competing for more titles.

    Clemson would have to become a dynasty before they start really rivaling Bama for the #1 program spot, and even then that might not be enough.

  6. #58
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by FairlyAmazing View Post
    "#1 program and reigning national champions are not the same thing IMO."


    One is subjective and one is not.

    Go on...

    Not sure how that's relevant. Obviously its subjective which is why we are debating it?
    Last edited by RollTide_HTTR; May 9th, 2019 at 09:47 AM.

  7. #59
    BamaNation All-SEC CoachJeff's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Clemson would have to become a dynasty before they start really rivaling Bama for the #1 program spot, and even then that might not be enough.

    Clemson *is* a dynasty. They have won 2 of the past 3 titles. They are Alabama at the end of the 2011 season. I don't expect them to maintain the success Bama had after 2011 but if you were arguing that Bama was a dynasty due to winning 2 of 3 titles, being the preseason #1, returning a bunch of talent and having the #1 recruiting class you'd have a good point. The difference is that there was no one else in Alabama's class after the 2011 whereas now you have Alabama and Clemson both being dynasties at the same time.
    ----
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  8. #60
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachJeff View Post
    Clemson *is* a dynasty. They have won 2 of the past 3 titles. They are Alabama at the end of the 2011 season. I don't expect them to maintain the success Bama had after 2011 but if you were arguing that Bama was a dynasty due to winning 2 of 3 titles, being the preseason #1, returning a bunch of talent and having the #1 recruiting class you'd have a good point. The difference is that there was no one else in Alabama's class after the 2011 whereas now you have Alabama and Clemson both being dynasties at the same time.
    Without 3 they are not a dynasty other than an ACC dynasty. Otherwise Florida was a dynasty from 2006-2008.

  9. #61
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by TideEngineer08 View Post
    They weren't built on a solid foundation then. Yeah it was the worst loss Alabama has suffered in 2 decades, but it doesn't take a genius to have come to the conclusion that we weren't prepared to even be in that stadium that night. The reason I say that is, this isn't like Clemson "exposed" us. They exposed our lack of preparation that night, but not the overall footing of the program.
    Limiting my comment to that one NC game I have felt what we saw that night was the result of a couple of factors. I haven't been a big fan of Mike Locksley in terms of developing a balanced offense and preparing a game plan for Tua against outstanding defenses. It came up in spades that night with him having his attention fixed on Maryland. The other factor I thought was that we had a team that could not be as prepared mentally and physically due to the level of competition from Oklahoma and the extra travel involved versus Clemson who was able to cruise through a season and a playoff game with essentially another ACC team. If that isn't enough we obviously had a number of coaches looking for their next job. The worst possible mix I believe. To me all of that is no more predictive of the future than the semi-final beat down of Clemson the previous year.

  10. #62
    BamaNation All-SEC CoachJeff's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Without 3 they are not a dynasty other than an ACC dynasty. Otherwise Florida was a dynasty from 2006-2008.
    Clemson in the past 4 years:
    2015 - 14-1, won ACC, lost in title game
    2016 - 14-1, won ACC, won title
    2017 - 12-2, won ACC, lost in semis
    2018 - 15-0, won ACC, won title

    Florida 2005-2008
    2005 - 9-3, 2nd in division
    2006 - 13-1, won SEC, won the title
    2007 - 9-4, 3rd in division
    2008 - 13-1, won SEC, won the title

    Florida was good, but you don't fail to win 10 games 2 times in 4 years and get called a dynasty. Plus Florida had Tebow. Clemson has won titles with 2 different QBs.

    That's what makes Saban's run the most impressive - he's doing it with so many different guys at QB.
    ----
    B.A. from The University of Alabama (during the Fran/Shula years) so don't question my fandom.

  11. #63
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    IMO in deciding which program is the "#1 program" you should take into account recent success on the field, in recruiting, and putting players into the NFL.

    In only one of those categories does Clemson match Alabama over the last 4 years and in none of those categories do they surpass Alabama.

    Feel free to disagree but that's the way I personally see it.
    Last edited by RollTide_HTTR; May 9th, 2019 at 10:22 AM.

  12. #64
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachJeff View Post
    Clemson in the past 4 years:
    2015 - 14-1, won ACC, lost in title game
    2016 - 14-1, won ACC, won title
    2017 - 12-2, won ACC, lost in semis
    2018 - 15-0, won ACC, won title

    Florida 2005-2008
    2005 - 9-3, 2nd in division
    2006 - 13-1, won SEC, won the title
    2007 - 9-4, 3rd in division
    2008 - 13-1, won SEC, won the title

    Florida was good, but you don't fail to win 10 games 2 times in 4 years and get called a dynasty. Plus Florida had Tebow. Clemson has won titles with 2 different QBs.

    That's what makes Saban's run the most impressive - he's doing it with so many different guys at QB.
    Florida won titles with two different qbs as well.

  13. #65
    BamaNation All-American Con's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan Allen: "I still hate Clemson"

    I can't wait for the end of August. I do hate Clemson, but it is a healthy rival that will make us stay focused which we need. They need us as well.

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