Do you remember the down years for Alabama football?

Yes. Remember it all too well. My Dad has always said since we won the NC in 09, “Enjoy this time right now. You never know when it is going to end.” I’m enjoying living in the moment right now.

The worst it ever got for me was when we lost to Tennessee at home in, I believe, Franchione’s 1st year. CBS showed the ut players on the field before the game singing along with Sweet Home, Alabama and changing the lyrics to “We Own Alabama.”

I like to call 1996-2006 “The Dark Ages”.

Roll Tide!!
ChattTide

ChattTide said:

Yes. Remember it all too well. My Dad has always said since we won the NC in 09, “Enjoy this time right now. You never know when it is going to end.” I’m enjoying living in the moment right now.

The worst it ever got for me was when we lost to Tennessee at home in, I believe, Franchione’s 1st year. CBS showed the ut players on the field before the game singing along with Sweet Home, Alabama and changing the lyrics to “We Own Alabama.”

I like to call 1996-2006 “The Dark Ages”.

Roll Tide!!
ChattTide

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What's crazy is we still had some pretty decent teams in that time period. '99 and '05 were great teams, IIRC. And even when UT and the Barn were beating us, we were super competitive in most games.

What UT has been thru the last several years is their payback for what they did. But they've been so bad some years out 3rd team could have beaten them.

saturdaysarebet said:

Four of the winningest college football programs had a losing season last year: Florida State, Nebraska, Tennessee and USC.

Do you remember the down years for Alabama football?

https://thegruelingtruth.com/colleg...most-recent-losing-year-for-alabama-football/

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I'm trying hard to forget.
The bad years of Probation, the limitations of Scholarships, and Fat Phil.
I reserve special ire for the likes of Tommy Tuberville and his Thumb.

I was tough on Mike Shula, but at least he took the job at Alabama.
Lots of coaches would not return calls from Alabama back then.
More on Shula... Mike was really too young and green for the Alabama job,
BUT... Mike took the job and worked here in terrible times. I have to give him that.
Mike made rookie mistakes, but he tried. I give him that too...
Sorry Mike, you deserved a little better treatment.

As soon as Coach Saban's name was mentioned for our job, I was excited.
CNS was a seasoned coach with lots of experience.
Coach Saban had a reputation for being a tough coach who was very demanding.
We needed that.

Now back to Coach Shula...
After Alabama, Mike went back to the Pro's and made a name for himself.
Mike grew up in the Pro's. He grew into the job there. I'm proud of him now.

BamaMoon said:

What's crazy is we still had some pretty decent teams in that time period. '99 and '05 were great teams, IIRC. And even when UT and the Barn were beating us, we were super competitive in most games.

What UT has been thru the last several years is their payback for what they did. But they've been so bad some years out 3rd team could have beaten them.

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2002 was a good team.

There were even memorable moments in the mediocre years. We finished 7-5 in 1998, but that year we had an amazing comeback to win against LSU in Baton Rouge.

We were 7-5 in 2001, fRAN's first year, but we had that absolute thrashing of Auburn in Jordan-Hare, 31-7.

I sure do.

January of my freshman year, Coach Bryant died. Later that Fall was Ray Perkins' first team. I cannot remember the record, but it wasn't a losing one. Then came 1984. Bama played some of its home games at Legion Field in Birmingham, and our fraternity chartered a bus to those games. After a loss there to Vanderbilt (VANDERBILT-keep in mind this isn't too long after Alabama had dominated throughout the 1970s), the bus was literally silent all the way back to Tuscaloosa. I honestly think I was in shock. Bama had not experienced a losing season since, I believe it was, 1957. I had never seen anything like that in my lifetime, and it was happening while I was in college! The good news, though, is that 1985 was one of the most exciting seasons in my memory (if you weren't around then, and you never saw the 4th quarter of the Iron Bowl that year, find it--it's bound to be on Youtube). In 1986, many, including I, felt Bama was truly back (Perkins was a phenomenal recruiter); however, we lost to Penn State I want to say 9-3 or something close to that, and then lost to LSU and Auburn following (cannot remember if we beat Tennessee that year). So I guess one losing season in 1984 wasn't as bad as it later got, but it sure did feel rotten at the time....

Bamaatthebeach said:

I sure do.

January of my freshman year, Coach Bryant died. Later that Fall was Ray Perkins' first team. I cannot remember the record, but it wasn't a losing one. Then came 1984. Bama played some of its home games at Legion Field in Birmingham, and our fraternity chartered a bus to those games. After a loss there to Vanderbilt (VANDERBILT-keep in mind this isn't too long after Alabama had dominated throughout the 1970s), the bus was literally silent all the way back to Tuscaloosa. I honestly think I was in shock. Bama had not experienced a losing season since, I believe it was, 1957. I had never seen anything like that in my lifetime, and it was happening while I was in college! The good news, though, is that 1985 was one of the most exciting seasons in my memory (if you weren't around then, and you never saw the 4th quarter of the Iron Bowl that year, find it--it's bound to be on Youtube). In 1986, many, including I, felt Bama was truly back (Perkins was a phenomenal recruiter); however, we lost to Penn State I want to say 9-3 or something close to that, and then lost to LSU and Auburn following (cannot remember if we beat Tennessee that year). So I guess one losing season in 1984 wasn't as bad as it later got, but it sure did feel rotten at the time....

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IIRC, that was the first time we had lost to Vandy at home in years and years. Those were tough years adjusting to Alabama football without Coach Bryant, watching Auburn start winning more and watching us be mediocre way too much.

saturdaysarebet said:

Do you remember the down years for Alabama football?

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No, absolutely not.

(This is triple hilarious in my case......)

For all of the grief folks give Shula, Dubose's era was far worse IMO. Shula inherited massive player roster reductions due to the NCAA. The deck was stacked against him. Admittedly, Dubose also had to deal with scholarship losses, but going 4-7 in his first year before those really took effect.. oh god I still remember watching in the cold rain against Mississippi State one year during that era. Then throw in the behavior scandals, getting hit with new sanctions which made the situation even more dire.

Unfortunately I remember them. I can’t forget them. I wish a lot more fans thought that way.

FThomas said:

For all of the grief folks give Shula, Dubose's era was far worse IMO. Shula inherited massive player roster reductions due to the NCAA. The deck was stacked against him. Admittedly, Dubose also had to deal with scholarship losses, but going 4-7 in his first year before those really took effect.. oh god I still remember watching in the cold rain against Mississippi State one year during that era. Then throw in the behavior scandals, getting hit with new sanctions which made the situation even more dire.

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To me, they were about equal, and their respective 4 year records bear that out. For all the flaws DuBose had, Shula had his own, and even if he were given a tougher deck of cards, I doubt he would have done any better in a better situation.

That cold rain game was DuBose's first year, 1997. We went to that game and it is the only game we ever left early. It was almost a sleeting rain. DuBose started Lance Tucker instead of Freddie Kitchens that day, for some reason. MSU had a RB, JJ Johnson was his name I believe, who just ran all over our defense that day.

A down year for an Alabama fan requires perspective.

Hell, 2010 was "down" year by our standards.

What a lot of people don't remember about 1984 is that we were considered serious contenders for the national championship before the season began. We had one first-place vote in the preseason AP poll, and we began at number nine after finishing 1983 at 15 following our shredding of SMU. Had we beaten Boston College in the opener - a ranked team with a Heisman Trophy candidate (and ultimately winner) at QB - then we would have jumped probably as high as 5 in the second poll of the season because of the losses in front of us.

We scored 31 points in the first half plus a kickoff return from Goode against BC. Not including the 37-14 thumping over ULL in week 3, we never topped 29 points in any game the rest of the year, two opponents held us to single digits, and two others held us to 14 points (we went 1-3 in those four contests). The shift of offense from the old wishbone of Bryant to Ray Perkins's pro set style worked (to a degree) in 1983, but sophomore Mike Shula was no Walter Lewis, and we didn't have the Joey Jones or Jesse Bendross receiver in 84 that we got even better with Al Bell in 1985. (We did have Whitehurst, Richardson, and Chandler a year better in 1985....so, too, Shula, who actually threw fewer passes in 1984 than the late Vince Sutton did).


The problem in 1984 is we just never got going. It was sort of like 2000 but without the Dubosian drama. I'll guarantee you that when Tide fans think of 1984 there is one first and ONLY memory they retain precious: the goal line stand that beat an Auburn team that was substantially better than us that year.




As far as 1997......I wasn't completely surprised because you need to go back and look at how many "thread the needle" contests we had when Stallings coached us. Here's how many one-score margin games we played:

1990 - 4 (3 losses)
1991 - 6 (0 losses)
1992 - 3 (0 losses)
1993 - 4 (2 losses, 1 tie)
1994 - 8 (1 loss)
1995 - 6 (2 losses)
1996 - 5 (2 losses)

The difference in the Stallings era and the DuBose era was NOT talent no matter how many folks want to say "but sanctions." After all, even DuBose won an SEC title WITH STALLINGS'S SENIORS!!!


The difference? In game coaching. Take a look at one-score games (e.g. 8 points or less)

1997 - 4 (4 losses)
1998 - 5 (1 loss)
1999 - 6 (2 losses)

Prior to 2000, Alabama played 19 one-score games under Stallings (and won 14) in his last three years; in Dubious's first three years, we played 15 more......and lost 7 (basically half of them).

Stallings 14-5
DuBose 8-7


So what happened the moment CGS recruits left (Alexander, Samuels, etc)?
2000 3 (3 losses)

And keep in mind that micro-analysis would show some of the "big wins" under DuBose really weren't (see 99 Miss St and 00 Vandy for two good examples). They were games where in the final 2-3 minutes the opposition fell apart.


The difference wasn't talent - it was preparation, enforcing discipline, and in-game situational coaching. Stallings had all 3, DuBose had zero.

The 2000 season would be an even more disastrous memory if not for what followed when the NCAA used a nuclear warhead to kill a gnat. YES, folks, we WERE guilty of some things - but they basically tried to give the death penalty for jaywalking (and stealing a pocket Casio from the Dollar Tree).


As far as the Shula era.........I'm willing to spot the guy the 2003 season simply because he got a late start with a crippled team and wound up playing both teams that played in the national championship game.


CLOSE GAMES
2003 - 6 (0-6)
2004 - 3 (0-3)
2005 - 4 (3-1)
2006 - 8 (3-5)

CLOSE GAMES RECORD
Stallings 31-10-1
Dubious 8-10
Shula 6-14 (Kines coached the bowl game in 06)


We don't play many close games. What's Saban's record at Alabama in one-score games? 23-15
And remember - SIX of those 15 losses by one score were in 2007........Saban was 4-6 with (basically) Shula's team in one-score games.....oh yeah, and I seem to recall some sort of Textbook scandal ripping some starters away from him as well.


The point? Your good/great coaches have to be able to win close games. At Alabama, we're going to get talent merely because we ARE Alabama.

It's what you do with that talent that matters.

TideEngineer08 said:

To me, they were about equal, and their respective 4 year records bear that out. For all the flaws DuBose had, Shula had his own, and even if he were given a tougher deck of cards, I doubt he would have done any better in a better situation.

That cold rain game was DuBose's first year, 1997. We went to that game and it is the only game we ever left early. It was almost a sleeting rain. DuBose started Lance Tucker instead of Freddie Kitchens that day, for some reason. MSU had a RB, JJ Johnson was his name I believe, who just ran all over our defense that day.

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Funny story. Less than a month after that game (on December 1, 1997, to be precise), I was working out at the base gym and went into the sauna.

Guess who was in there? JJ Johnson (I think he was in the Naval Reserve).

Guess what I was wearing? A thin layer of Alabama shorts.

Guess what he wanted to talk trash about?

I think he was shocked when I told him, "Yeah, I saw the game, you're a good player. Y'all kicked our (word)."


The amusing part, though, was that if you recall the Egg Bowl that same year, Ole Miss and StarkVegas Tech got into a brawl on the field before the game. I told him I'd heard about it (I was on the road so I hadn't seen it), and asked him if he knew what had happened since those schools don't usually brawl like that.

He burst out laughing and said that what had happened was there were two players - one on each team - who had played at the same high school together who had been visiting each other for a bit and when one turned to go join his team, one bopped the other kinda hard on the helmet playfully, and he thought it was someone cheap shotting him and there they went, all hell broke loose.

It was the most Mississippi fight in the history of the state. (It was also reminiscent of an old Jerry Clower story where he tossed some okra back to the hounds and it went down so slick that one dog thought another got his share and jumped on them - and the dogs fought for the rest of the evening with only one dog knowing what they were fighting about).

I graduated in 2003 so yeah...


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mikeua69 said:

I graduated in 2003 so yeah...


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"I feel your pain...."

Thanks for that--I didn't recall that we won a game that year. So I looked it up, and we actually beat Georgia by 1 point and Miss. Southern by several. Now I have to see if I can remember we won 2 games the year I decided to go to Alabama!

BamaMoon said:

What's crazy is we still had some pretty decent teams in that time period. '99 and '05 were great teams, IIRC. And even when UT and the Barn were beating us, we were super competitive in most games.

What UT has been thru the last several years is their payback for what they did. But they've been so bad some years out 3rd team could have beaten them.

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i don't remember many of those teams getting beaten like we were this past year.

TideEngineer08 said:

2002 was a good team.

There were even memorable moments in the mediocre years. We finished 7-5 in 1998, but that year we had an amazing comeback to win against LSU in Baton Rouge.

We were 7-5 in 2001, fRAN's first year, but we had that absolute thrashing of Auburn in Jordan-Hare, 31-7.

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that was the game that led me to institute a beer-a-quarter rule when watching bama games.

FThomas said:

For all of the grief folks give Shula, Dubose's era was far worse IMO. Shula inherited massive player roster reductions due to the NCAA.

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So did Urban Meyer.

For that matter......so did Nick Saban at Michigan State.....and Alabama.......

So did Terry Bowden, and he went undefeated his first 21 games........


I don't disagree with your central point, but "well, we had sanctions" is problematic for me when you've got an Urban Meyer able to run the table his first year.
I understand Shula isn't Urban Meyer but still.

FThomas said:

The deck was stacked against him. Admittedly, Dubose also had to deal with scholarship losses, but going 4-7 in his first year before those really took effect..

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DuBose was a master at getting people to believe his excuses in the early years. I've heard tell - don't know the veracity of the claim, but I first heard it in 2002 - that Stallings had said he could have won seven games with Dubious's 4-7 team. And given the fact Stallings likely would have beaten 4-7 Arkansas (one-point loss), 5-6 Kentucky, La Tech, and there's no way in hell he throws the ball with the Iron Bowl in the bag.....I think Stallings wins AT LEAST eight games with that team that everyone wants to use the "but sanctions" argument to defend.

Besides - it's difficult for me to buy the argument "but sanctions" in 1997 but then dismiss it when Dubious wins the SEC in 1999, when the sanctions should have had more bite to them. The FIRST recruiting class post-sanctions was the one signed in February 1996 that included Shaun Alexander and Chris Samuels. DuBose's 1997 team included seniors who had been recruited from the 1994 class that should have been the MOST beneficial (since the rule of thumb is that a national championship helps you the SECOND year, in this case 1994 following a 92 title).

DuBose didn't have much problem with sanctions in 1999 from the first class recruited post-sanctions, which is why I have a hard time swallowing this one.

FThomas said:

oh god I still remember watching in the cold rain against Mississippi State one year during that era.

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I believe it rained in both the 1997 and 1998 MSU games.
I KNOW it did in the latter one because I was in the stands at Cowbell Hell, and we never showed up to play AT ALL.

I'm 99% sure it did in 1997. That morning we had a Hospital Open House, and I competed in a talent show that afternoon.....which is why I only saw a few minutes of our game.
But given I was only an hour west of there and it was pouring, I'm pretty sure it rained in 97 as well.



Then throw in the behavior scandals, getting hit with new sanctions which made the situation even more dire.[/QUOTE]

To me the lowest point since Coach Bryant's retirement was the loss to USM in September of 2000. We got beat 21-0 in Legion Field and never even threatened to score. IIRC the closest we got was the USM 25 yard line. Nobody on the sidelines knew what to do, players running onto the field and then being yelled at to get off the field. Total confusion, with the players and the staff.

After the game, the players were headed (with their heads hung) into the tunnel in the north end zone for the locker room, fans leaning over the rails booing them and throwing drinks on them. I have never seen anything like it before or since. To me that was rock bottom for the Alabama football program. That was the game Dubose offered Mal his resignation.