75th anniversary of D-Day... - Page 50
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  1. #638
    BamaNation All-SEC gman4tide's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    In the second pic, those wood lots are still there (practically unchanged) and that building is still there. That's really neat.

  2. #639
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    September 17, 1944: Operation Market Garden begins. ... Unknown to Allied planners, the 9th SS Hohenstaufen and 10th SS Frundsberg Panzer Divisions are located in Arnhem for rest and refit from combat on the Eastern Front.
    Not only had the 9th and 10th SS Panzer involved in the extraction of the First Panzer Army on the Eastern Front in March-April, but they had a little sojourn in Normandy in June-August.
    I went back and checked what I had posted earlier and when Sepp Dietrich took command of the 5th Panzer Army, on 25 August 1944, he directed survey of the status of the army's panzer units.
    "The 10th SS Panzer Division had only a weak infantry battalion (perhaps 300 men), no tanks, no guns; ... the 9th SS Panzer Division had 460 men, 20 to 25 tanks, and 20 guns."
    Nevertheless, these two divisions were fighting airborne troops in Holland three week later. Motivating these guys was probably no easy task.
    Last edited by Tidewater; September 17th, 2019 at 11:56 AM.

  3. #640
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    It's been years and years since I read "Bridge Too Far," but, IIRC, the blame was laid squarely on Monty's head. It's a puzzle to me, since he was normally so cautious...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  4. #641
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    It has been years since I have read about Market Garden but my recollection is that the major reason, other than the airborne divisions running into the unexpected German armored divisions, was the fact that the roads were narrow causeways through the low country which essentially meant that there was only a single route for the armored units to relieve the airborne divisions. The German troops merely had to knock out the lead tank and the roadway was completely blocked. A large German force was not required to accomplish this. This was the major planning blunder that doomed the operation and is typical of so much involved in all human endeavors. Our hubris often leads us to fail to recognize the greatest troll that may appear in our path!

  5. #642
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    It's been years and years since I read "Bridge Too Far," but, IIRC, the blame was laid squarely on Monty's head. It's a puzzle to me, since he was normally so cautious...
    It was Monty's plan but it appears to me that Ike was led by Monty to abandon his broad front strategy in favor of this "lighting stroke" into Germany. We can see through the maps of the front and the failure of Market Garden that the seeds were being sewn for the desperate battle in the Ardennes only a few months in the future.

  6. #643
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    It has been years since I have read about Market Garden but my recollection is that the major reason, other than the airborne divisions running into the unexpected German armored divisions, was the fact that the roads were narrow causeways through the low country which essentially meant that there was only a single route for the armored units to relieve the airborne divisions. The German troops merely had to knock out the lead tank and the roadway was completely blocked. A large German force was not required to accomplish this. This was the major planning blunder that doomed the operation and is typical of so much involved in all human endeavors. Our hubris often leads us to fail to recognize the greatest troll that may appear in our path!
    TBF, I've always wondered if Monty were trying to shake his "timid" image...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  7. #644
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    It was Monty's plan but it appears to me that Ike was led by Monty to abandon his broad front strategy in favor of this "lighting stroke" into Germany. We can see through the maps of the front and the failure of Market Garden that the seeds were being sewn for the desperate battle in the Ardennes only a few months in the future.
    I've tried reading Monty's memoir, but it's just like trying to read any narcissist's. It's nauseating after a while...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  8. #645
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    TBF, I've always wondered if Monty were trying to shake his "timid" image...
    That's would be my assessment, but I am normally reluctant to wrestle historical subjects to the psychiatrist's couch because I have seen so much bad history come from that procedure.

  9. #646
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    September 18, 1944: Day two of Operation Market Garden: the British XXX Corps is able to advance 20 miles, relieving the troops of the US 101st Airborne Division at Veghel and captured Eindhoven, and the 101st Airborne is forced to stop to repair the bridge at Son. To the north, the US 82nd and British 1st Airborne Divisions continue to resist. German forces launch strong attacks against the British positions at Arhnem - attempts to reinforce the battalion in the town at the bridge prove fruitless as heavy fog prevents airdrops until late in the afternoon. Elements of 82nd Airborne engage in heavy street fighting in Njmegan as they move on the bridge there.

    US 1st Army continues to attack Aachen, Lammersdorf, and Monschau and Pattons US 3rd Army remains heavily engaged around Metz and Luneville. US 7th Army and French Army B are regrouping north of Belfort.

    After six weeks of some of the fiercest battles fought on the Western Front during all of the war, the US 9th Army captures the port city of Brest, France. Though heavily fortified and defended, Brest is an absolute necessity in order to ensure the timely delivery of the enormous amount of supplies required by the invading Allied forces - it is estimated that the 37 Allied divisions on the continent by September need 26,000 tons of supplies each day.

    Overnight, above Germany, RAF Bomber Command sends 213 aircraft to attack Bremerhaven, destroying much of the city and 33 aircraft to attack Berlin.

    On the eastern front, Soviet 3rd Baltic Front continues pushing through Estonia as the German 18th Army and Group Narva withdraw. As the German forces withdraw, Estonian provisional government surfaces in Tallinn and declares neutrality in Russo-German war.

    In occupied Poland, American B-17 bombers drop 1284 containers of supplies in an attempt to replenish the embattled Polish Home Army (AK) in Warsaw, but only 228 fall on territory still controlled by the Poles. This is the only major supply drop by the western Allies allowed by the Soviets. The US planes are escorted by 64 fighters and land in Soviet territory after completing their mission.

    In Italy, British 8th Army is attacking main positions of the Rimini Line while US 5th Army attacks around Pietrasanta, Camaiore, Castelvecchio, Pistoia, Futa pass, and Femmina Morta. Overhead, US 12th Air Force aircraft attack targets around Rimini and in the Po valley.

    Pictured: B-24J Liberator of the 854th Bomb Squadron guided to the ground after being hit by light-flak during low-level supply drop for the 82nd and 101st Airborne near Eindhoven, Holland, September 18, 1944.; Captain Ogilvie of the UK Glider Pilot Regiment, who landed in his kilt during Operation Market Garden, preparing for a patrol next to a jeep, September 18, 1944; Troops of US 101st Airborne Division with members of Dutch resistance at the Eindhoven cathedral, the Netherlands, September 18, 1944; A forty-foot hole in the roof of a U-boat pen in Brest, France that received a direct hit during the Allied bombardment.

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    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  10. #647
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    That's would be my assessment, but I am normally reluctant to wrestle historical subjects to the psychiatrist's couch because I have seen so much bad history come from that procedure.
    Yes, but it's human nature to speculate about motivation. It's too fascinating...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  11. #648
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    September 18, 1944: Day two of Operation Market Garden: the British XXX Corps is able to advance 20 miles, relieving the troops of the US 101st Airborne Division at Veghel and captured Eindhoven, and the 101st Airborne is forced to stop to repair the bridge at Son.
    At Fort Campbell, Kentucky, today's home of the 101st Airborne Division, there are drop zones called Veghel DZ and Son DZ.

  12. #649
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Go Bama's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

    I’m not finding any information on the Rimini line. Is that another name for the Gothic line?

  13. #650
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: 75th anniversary of D-Day...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Bama View Post
    I’m not finding any information on the Rimini line. Is that another name for the Gothic line?
    On the map it is called the Pisa-Rimini Line, the Green Line, and the Gothic Line. Rimini is a city of the Adriatic coast.

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