75th anniversary of D-Day...

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TIDE-HSV

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One of the great feats of warfare in history was the 4th AD moving the 150 miles from the Saarbrucken area to Bastogne in 19 hours over rapidly deteriorating roadways with the ever present danger of German anti-tank fire and blocking of roadways with trees. Departing on December 18 the first unit penetrated German lines and arrived in Bastogne on December 26. Quite a Christmas present for the 101st and other exhausted holding the Bastogne perimeter.

The entire XII Corp assembled and moved to Luxembourg City on December 21-22 and began clearing the German left flank.
Even though some of his decisions were mystifying, Eisenhower was correct, Hitler had presented the Allies with a Christmas gift...
 
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Tidewater

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Even though some of his decisions were mystifying, Eisenhower was correct, Hitler had presented the Allies with a Christmas gift...
I was having a discussion about Op TORCH/North Africa with an army JAG major at the Command and General Staff College.
He said that the Allies losing the race to Tunis was a blessing. Every German soldier and tank the Nazis sent to Tunisia ended up in an Allied POW camp.
I suppose once the TORCH landings were done, the Germans should have told Rommel to pull back to Benghazi or Tobruk and evacuate by sea as many men as he could.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I was having a discussion about Op TORCH/North Africa with an army JAG major at the Command and General Staff College.
He said that the Allies losing the race to Tunis was a blessing. Every German soldier and tank the Nazis sent to Tunisia ended up in an Allied POW camp.
I suppose once the TORCH landings were done, the Germans should have told Rommel to pull back to Benghazi or Tobruk and evacuate by sea as many men as he could.
Hitler's orders were completely opposite. He ordered Rommel not to "give up a meter" of his position and Rommel disobeyed. Göbbels covered up the split between the two by evacuating Rommel for two months for "health reasons," while the withdrawal took place from Tunisia. BTW, Hitler had never been in a desert...
 
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Tidewater

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Hitler's orders were completely opposite. He ordered Rommel not to "give up a meter" of his position and Rommel disobeyed. Göbbels covered up the split between the two by evacuating Rommel for two months for "health reasons," while the withdrawal took place from Tunisia. BTW, Hitler had never been in a desert...
I just checked. The Allies took 275,000 prisoners in Tunisia in May 1943, of which 155,000 were German, including the remnants of three Panzer Divisions (10th, 15th and 21st).
I would imagine that taking Sicily would have been a bit tougher if those troops had escaped North Africa in the spring of 1943.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I just checked. The Allies took 275,000 prisoners in Tunisia in May 1943, of which 155,000 were German, including the remnants of three Panzer Divisions (10th, 15th and 21st).
I would imagine that taking Sicily would have been a bit tougher if those troops had escaped North Africa in the spring of 1943.
I think that's generally recognized. The German debacle in north Africa was the springboard for the Allied invasion of Italy, starting with Sicily...
 

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December 24, 1944: It’s Sunday, Christmas Eve, and the German Ardennes offensive is exhausted by the end of the day. The Germans have outrun their supply lines, and shortages of fuel and ammunition are becoming critical. Up to this point the German losses have been light, notably in armor, which has been almost untouched with the exception of Peiper's losses. Due to these issues combined with the Allies’ fierce defenses, in the evening General Hasso von Manteuffel recommends to Hitler's Military Adjutant a halt to all offensive operations and a withdrawal back to the West Wall, which Hitler rejects. The furthest advance has been achieved by elements of the German 5th Panzer Army which is attacking the British XXX Corps around Celles, though the Brits hold the bridges at Dinant, Givet, and Namur (US units soon take over). Despite the stall of the German offensive, disagreement and confusion at the Allied command prevents a strong response, throwing away the opportunity for a decisive action. In the center, the 2nd Armored Division attempts to attack and cut off the spearheads of the 2nd Panzer Division at the Meuse, while the units from the 4th Cavalry Group keep the 9th Panzer Division at Marche busy. As result, parts of the 2nd Panzer Division are cut off. Panzer Lehr tries to relieve them, but is only partially successful, as the perimeter held.

The 2nd Panzer Division reaches the outskirts of Dinant with the 116th Panzer Division on the right flank near Hotten and the Panzer Lehr Division on the left flank to the west of St. Hubert. German 6th Panzer Army captures Manhay. The 101st Airborne continues to resist in Bastogne; some 260 Allied transports drop supplies to the defenders. Allied fighter-bombers fly over 600 sorties in the Ardennes. An ‘unforgettable mass’ takes place that evening in the town; wounded Airborne soldiers shed tears at the tune of "Silent Night". and the German POWs were visited by Gen. McCauliffe himself as they were singing "Stille Nacht" and "O Tannenbaum" and he wishes the POWs a Merry Christmas.

The US 9th Army attacks into Winden and the French 1st Army captures Bennwihr.

RAF Bomber Command sends 338 aircraft to attack airfields at Lohausen and Mulheim during the day, the Luftwaffe loses 40 fighters attacking the bombers. RAF Bomber Command sends 104 aircraft to attack Hangelar airfield overnight and 97 aircraft to attack Cologne airfield overnight.

On the eastern front, the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front and 3rd Ukrainian Front encircle the German forces in Budapest except for a narrow corridor to the west.

In Italy, US 12th Air Force bombers grounded by poor weather conditions while fighters attack transportation targets and an airfield.

Over Britain, some 50 specially modified German He111 bombers launch V1 flying bombs in flight, aimed at Manchester. Only one bomb hits the target area, 17 fall nearby. A total of 37 people are killed and 67 are injured. Steps are taken to strengthen anti-aircraft defenses but no further attacks occur.

Pictured: Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe's Christmas letter to the US 101st Airborne Division at Bastogne, Belgium in which he recreated the German surrender demand and his response to it, December 24, 1944.; The aid station on the Rue Neaufchateau in Bastogne, Belgium, destroyed by German bombs on Christmas Eve 1944, killing 30 American soldiers.; 11th Armored Division half-tracks massed on the outskirts of Bastogne.; Situation map from December 24, 1944. (select Options -> Download for his-res view)
December 24, 1944: It’s Sunday, Christmas Eve, and the German Ardennes offensive is exhausted by the end of the day. The Germans have outrun their supply lines, and shortages of fuel and ammunition are becoming critical. Up to this point the German losses have been light, notably in armor, which has been almost untouched with the exception of Peiper's losses. Due to these issues combined with the Allies’ fierce defenses, in the evening General Hasso von Manteuffel recommends to Hitler's Military Adjutant a halt to all offensive operations and a withdrawal back to the West Wall, which Hitler rejects. The furthest advance has been achieved by elements of the German 5th Panzer Army which is attacking the British XXX Corps around Celles, though the Brits hold the bridges at Dinant, Givet, and Namur (US units soon take over). Despite the stall of the German offensive, disagreement and confusion at the Allied command prevents a strong response, throwing away the opportunity for a decisive action. In the center, the 2nd Armored Division attempts to attack and cut off the spearheads of the 2nd Panzer Division at the Meuse, while the units from the 4th Cavalry Group keep the 9th Panzer Division at Marche busy. As result, parts of the 2nd Panzer Division are cut off. Panzer Lehr tries to relieve them, but is only partially successful, as the perimeter held.

The 2nd Panzer Division reaches the outskirts of Dinant with the 116th Panzer Division on the right flank near Hotten and the Panzer Lehr Division on the left flank to the west of St. Hubert. German 6th Panzer Army captures Manhay. The 101st Airborne continues to resist in Bastogne; some 260 Allied transports drop supplies to the defenders. Allied fighter-bombers fly over 600 sorties in the Ardennes. An ‘unforgettable mass’ takes place that evening in the town; wounded Airborne soldiers shed tears at the tune of "Silent Night". and the German POWs were visited by Gen. McCauliffe himself as they were singing "Stille Nacht" and "O Tannenbaum" and he wishes the POWs a Merry Christmas.

The US 9th Army attacks into Winden and the French 1st Army captures Bennwihr.

RAF Bomber Command sends 338 aircraft to attack airfields at Lohausen and Mulheim during the day, the Luftwaffe loses 40 fighters attacking the bombers. RAF Bomber Command sends 104 aircraft to attack Hangelar airfield overnight and 97 aircraft to attack Cologne airfield overnight.

On the eastern front, the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front and 3rd Ukrainian Front encircle the German forces in Budapest except for a narrow corridor to the west.

In Italy, US 12th Air Force bombers grounded by poor weather conditions while fighters attack transportation targets and an airfield.

Over Britain, some 50 specially modified German He111 bombers launch V1 flying bombs in flight, aimed at Manchester. Only one bomb hits the target area, 17 fall nearby. A total of 37 people are killed and 67 are injured. Steps are taken to strengthen anti-aircraft defenses but no further attacks occur.

Pictured: Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe's Christmas letter to the US 101st Airborne Division at Bastogne, Belgium in which he recreated the German surrender demand and his response to it, December 24, 1944.; The aid station on the Rue Neaufchateau in Bastogne, Belgium, destroyed by German bombs on Christmas Eve 1944, killing 30 American soldiers.; 11th Armored Division half-tracks massed on the outskirts of Bastogne.; Situation map from December 24, 1944. (select Options -> Download for his-res view)

1224a.jpg
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TIDE-HSV

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It's such a shame that Eisenhower recognized the opportunity presented by the offensive and then failed to grasp it. I think I see Monty's fingerprints...
 
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TIDE-HSV

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What do you think Ike should have done?
I worded that badly, particularly not being an Ike critic. By "grasp," it sounded like a personal failure of Eisenhower, who may have been the most intelligent wartime commander we've ever had. In fact, the available intelligence failed to reveal, just as at Falaise, the extent of the disarray of the retreating Germans, that they were basically sans armor and hiking on foot. More advantage and POWs could have been taken, perhaps shortening the war a bit. OTOH, I remind myself that the finish line had been negotiated at Yalta, not that the Soviets would have observed it, had they not stubbed their toes at Berlin...
 
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Tidewater

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I worded that badly, particularly not being an Ike critic. By "grasp," it sounded like a personal failure of Eisenhower, who may have been the most intelligent wartime commander we've ever had. In fact, the available intelligence failed to reveal, just as at Falaise, the extent of the disarray of the retreating Germans, that they were basically sans armor and hiking on foot. More advantage and POWs could have been taken, perhaps shortening the war a bit. OTOH, I remind myself that the finish line had been negotiated at Yalta, not that the Soviets would have observed it, had they not stubbed their toes at Berlin...
Okay. Gotcha.
Napoleon defeated the Prussians at Jena-Auerstadt in 1806 and pursued the survivors all the way to the Baltic, and by the time they got to the Baltic, there were only 7,000 Prussian soldiers left in the field. There is something to be said for “Keeping up a skeer,” as Forrest is supposed to have said.
That said, the difficulty in the small-unit action at Foy (depicted in Band of Brothers) would indicate that, while their offensive power might have been dissipated by January 1945, the Wehrmacht still possessed considerable defensive power.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Okay. Gotcha.
Napoleon defeated the Prussians at Jena-Auerstadt in 1806 and pursued the survivors all the way to the Baltic, and by the time they got to the Baltic, there were only 7,000 Prussian soldiers left in the field. There is something to be said for “Keeping up a skeer,” as Forrest is supposed to have said.
That said, the difficulty in the small-unit action at Foy (depicted in Band of Brothers) would indicate that, while their offensive power might have been dissipated by January 1945, the Wehrmacht still possessed considerable defensive power.
What's the guesstimate on the Soviet casualty count to take Berlin? 350K, IIRC. Had the Germans been pursued immediately at Falaise and at WaR, there's little doubt that that defensive capability would have been eroded a bit more, maybe saving lives. It is interesting to play with the idea of a Monty-style quick strike into the void left as they retreated, if we could have mustered the forces. I'm sure Patton would have been champing at the bit. However, as I said above, we'd already handcuffed ourselves politically, so it's all speculation...
 
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crimsonaudio

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December 25, 1944: Allied forces surrounding the German-held bulge begin counterattacking. The US 4th Armored Division (an element of US 3rd Army) aims at relieving the Americans surrounded in Bastogne as the German 5th Panzer Army continues attacking US 101st Airborne Division in the town. Meanwhile, German attacks are halted by American armor of the US 1st Army at Celles, about 4 miles east of the Meuse River, after having advanced about 50 miles since the beginning of the offensive on December 16th.

US 2nd Armored Division, with British help, stops German 2.Panzer Division just 4 miles from the Meuse River in Belgium. US 9th Army captures Winden and attacks Obermaubach while the German 6th Panzer Army and US 1st Army are engaged around Trois Ponts and Manhay.

RAF 2nd Tactical Air Force attacking ground targets, supporting ground operations, and flying sweeps and US 9th Air Force aircraft support ground operations, attack transportation targets, and conduct armed recon missions, including more than 1000 fighter sorties (with 24 lost). US 8th Air Force attacks transportation targets with 388 bombers and 432 fighters, of which 5 bombers and 9 fighters lost. US fighters claim 80 Luftwaffe aircraft downed.

In the Allied-dominated skies, the US 15th Air Force attacks Plattling, Rosswein, Innsbruck, Graz, Hall, Villach, and Wels.

On the eastern front, the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front attacks into Pest while the Soviet 3rd Ukrainian Front pushes to cut the last corridor into Budapest.

In Italy, German radio announces a withdrawal of some 2,000 yards to the northwest of Faenza after heavy battles. US 12th Air Force fighters attack transportation lines in the Po valley and Brenner Pass.

Pictured: The besieged troops in Bastogne received their first re-supply by air on Christmas Day 1944.; Troops of Company H, 3rd Battalion, 504th Infantry Regiment, US 82nd Airborne Division escorting a captured German SS soldier, Bra, Belgium, December 25, 1944.; Alerted GI's of the M51 anti-aircraft battery are silhouetted against the sky streaked with vapor trails from Allied and enemy planes engaged in a dogfight. The battery is waiting to fire on an incoming enemy strafer. December 25, 1944.; The Allied counter attack begins - Belgian civilians carrying personal possessions flee as the Germans open an artillery barrage against Langlir in an attempt to halt the American drive on Houffalize.

1225a.jpg
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Go Bama

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What's the guesstimate on the Soviet casualty count to take Berlin? 350K, IIRC. Had the Germans been pursued immediately at Falaise and at WaR, there's little doubt that that defensive capability would have been eroded a bit more, maybe saving lives. It is interesting to play with the idea of a Monty-style quick strike into the void left as they retreated, if we could have mustered the forces. I'm sure Patton would have been champing at the bit. However, as I said above, we'd already handcuffed ourselves politically, so it's all speculation...
I thought this was a typo, but considering the source decided to check. I learn something new everyday.

 

UAH

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What's the guesstimate on the Soviet casualty count to take Berlin? 350K, IIRC. Had the Germans been pursued immediately at Falaise and at WaR, there's little doubt that that defensive capability would have been eroded a bit more, maybe saving lives. It is interesting to play with the idea of a Monty-style quick strike into the void left as they retreated, if we could have mustered the forces. I'm sure Patton would have been champing at the bit. However, as I said above, we'd already handcuffed ourselves politically, so it's all speculation...
Based on this discussion following the WaR battle, I pulled up the 244th history for January 1945 as the unit was attached to the 4th armored division in attacking the Siegfried Line and crossing of the Rhine in quick succession.
244th Jan. 1945.jpeg
244th January, 1945 2.jpeg
Considering the weather in December 1944 and January 1945 the Americans exacted significant damage to the Wehrmacht's defensive capability. The manner in which Patton combined armor, field artillery and infantry in a strategic way is in dramatic contrast to the 101st struggle at Foy.
 

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December 26, 1944: It’s Tuesday - today is D+203, marking 29 weeks (203 days) since the D-Day Invasion at Normandy and the beginning of the liberation of Europe.

The capture of Bastogne is one of the the ultimate goals of the German offensive as the town provides a road junction in rough terrain where few roads exist; it would open up a valuable pathway further north for German expansion, but the 101st Airborne Division (reinforced with various stragglers from other outfits) have held the Germans at bay for a week with limited food, medical supplies, and even ammunition. Finally, the US 4th Armored Division (of Patton's 3rd Army), commanded by Lt Charles P. Boggess (in the Cobra King, an M4 Sherman Tank), succeeds in punching through to Bastogne from the southwest, arriving from the direction of Assenois. The spearhead breaks through German 5th Panzer Army and reaches the lines of the 326th Engineers on the day after the Christmas attack at approximately 4:50 PM. The 101st's ground communications with the American supply dumps are restored on December 27, and the wounded are evacuated to the rear while the USAAF 9th Troop Carrier Command conducts supply missions to Bastogne with gliders. With the encirclement broken, the men of the 101st expect to be relieved, but are instead given orders to resume the offensive.

Meanwhile, the US 9th Army mops up Obermaubach, the German 5th Panzer Army spearhead stalls around Celles and the German 6th Panzer Army unable to make forward progress along northern flank.

The Allies claim to have captured 13,273 German prisoners while the Germans claim over 30,000 Allied POWs and the destruction of 700 American tanks.

RAF Bomber Command sends 294 aircraft to attack German positions around St Vith during the day while RAF 2nd Tactical Air Force, US 9th Air Force, and US 8th Air Force attack ground targets, supports ground operations, and flies sweeps. USAAF fighters claim 63 Luftwaffe aircraft downed.

On the eastern front, the Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front continues attacking into Pest while the Soviet 3rd Ukrainian Front spearheads reach 2nd Ukrainian Front, completing encirclement of German forces in Budapest. Hitler orders the German divisions in Budapest to stand firm and hold the fortress.

In Italy, the British 8th Army now holds a 17 mile frontage on the east bank of the Senio River from Alfonsine to south of Castel Bolognese. The German 14th Army counterattacks US 5th Army in the Serchio valley, pushing back the 92nd Infantry Division. US 12th Air Force aircraft support ground operations and attack targets throughout the Po valley and Brenner Pass.

A German V-2 rocket hits Islington, London at 9:26 PM, killing 68 and seriously injuring 99. The rocket leaves two craters, one 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, the other 10 feet wide and 4 feet deep.

Pictured: Lt. Charles Boggess in ‘King Cobra’ leading the liberation of Bastogne, Belgium on December 26, 1944.; American ambulance waiting outside a bombed building in Bastogne, Belgium while a searcher looked for persons injured during the ten-day defense by US 101st Airborne Division, December 26, 1944.; Soldiers from the all-black 969th Field Artillery Battalion and some 101st Airborne troopers unload 155-mm howitzer shells from CG-4A glider that has just landed inside the surrounded American stronghold at Bastogne, December 26, 1944.; An 8th Air Force B-24 Liberator pounds Sinzig, Germany on December 26, 1944.

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Tidewater

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December 26, 1944: ... With the encirclement broken, the men of the 101st expect to be relieved, but are instead given orders to resume the offensive.
.. Soldiers from the all-black 969th Field Artillery Battalion and some 101st Airborne troopers unload 155-mm howitzer shells from CG-4A glider that has just landed inside the surrounded American stronghold at Bastogne, December 26, 1944.;



View attachment 5323
I guess that is one thing that WaR did for the Germans. It wrecked both the 82nd and the 101s Airborne Divisions. They were never jump again in WW II. (Fortunately, the Allies had two more airborne divisions waiting in the wings, British 6th Airborne and the US 17th Airborne, for use in Operation VARSITY in March 1945.
And expending gliders like that is a sign of desperation (grossly inefficient and it expends gliders which are one-time-use items, so these particular gliders were not available for use in Operation VARSITY). Again, fortunately, the Allies had enough gliders waiting in the wings for VARSITY.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I guess that is one thing that WaR did for the Germans. It wrecked both the 82nd and the 101s Airborne Divisions. They were never jump again in WW II. (Fortunately, the Allies had two more airborne divisions waiting in the wings, British 6th Airborne and the US 17th Airborne, for use in Operation VARSITY in March 1945.
And expending gliders like that is a sign of desperation (grossly inefficient and it expends gliders which are one-time-use items, so these particular gliders were not available for use in Operation VARSITY). Again, fortunately, the Allies had enough gliders waiting in the wings for VARSITY.
Not to be snippy but it seems to me that Bastogne was a good place to expend those gliders...
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I guess that is one thing that WaR did for the Germans. It wrecked both the 82nd and the 101s Airborne Divisions. They were never jump again in WW II. (Fortunately, the Allies had two more airborne divisions waiting in the wings, British 6th Airborne and the US 17th Airborne, for use in Operation VARSITY in March 1945.
And expending gliders like that is a sign of desperation (grossly inefficient and it expends gliders which are one-time-use items, so these particular gliders were not available for use in Operation VARSITY). Again, fortunately, the Allies had enough gliders waiting in the wings for VARSITY.
We were talking about the C-47 navigators. Even in VARSITY, after some practice, there were still miss-drops...
 
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Tidewater

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Not to be snippy but it seems to me that Bastogne was a good place to expend those gliders...
I guess it depends on how many they had on hand. I believe the planning for VARSITY started in November.
Stephen L. Wright, The Last Drop: Operation Varsity 24-25 March, 1945, p. 13.
I'll have to check and see how many gliders an airborne division used.
just checked Cross-Channel Attack. The Chief of the Air Staff used the figure 440 gliders for a division.
On further examination, the 101st Airborne's glider infantry regiment went ashore by landing craft. The gliders that landed on the evening of June 6th and the morning of June 7th were bringing in heavy items like jeeps and artillery, but not infantry. In Normandy, only 3% of the gliders were reusable.

For MARKET-GARDEN, the American 101st Airborne used 450 gliders total on D-Day, the 82nd used 482 on D-Day. The Allies in total used 428 glider on D+1, and 384 on D+2.

In Operation VARSITY, the Allies used 1,300 gliders on D-Day, 900 for the 17th Airborne and 420 for the British 6th Airborne.

Just to give an idea of the scale of glider use. The VARSITY numbers would lead one to believe that they were not short on gliders.
 
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