30 years ago today - Tiananmen Square massacre

Bamaro

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In May 1989, nearly a million Chinese, mostly young students, crowded into central Beijing to protest for greater democracy and call for the resignations of Chinese Communist Party leaders deemed too repressive. For nearly three weeks, the protesters kept up daily vigils, and marched and chanted. Western reporters captured much of the drama for television and newspaper audiences in the United States and Europe.
On June 4, 1989, however, Chinese troops and security police stormed through Tiananmen Square, firing indiscriminately into the crowds of protesters. Turmoil ensued, as tens of thousands of the young students tried to escape the rampaging Chinese forces. Other protesters fought back, stoning the attacking troops and overturning and setting fire to military vehicles. Reporters and Western diplomats on the scene estimated that at least 300, and perhaps thousands, of the protesters had been killed and as many as 10,000 were arrested.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/tiananmen-square-massacre-takes-place

 

92tide

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china barely even acknowledges that this happened. maybe it was fake news

China wants us to forget the horrors of Tiananmen as it rewrites its history

Separately, we’ve witnessed the success of Beijing’s Great Forgetting. At public talks and in private conversations, we’ve been present at that split second when an eyewitness to the crackdown suddenly realises how their memories have been manipulated. We’ve both seen that moment of shock and discombobulation and heard various versions of the same statement: “I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. But I haven’t talked about it for so long that I’d put it out of my mind. Until this moment, I literally forgot I had been there.”
 

Tidewater

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china barely even acknowledges that this happened. maybe it was fake news

China wants us to forget the horrors of Tiananmen as it rewrites its history
It's worse than that.
Seaching "Tiananmen Square Massacre" inside China will get you a visit from the cops.
Do it again and you may simply disappear.
I realize one billion people is a big market, (Why google's censored search engine for china is an ethical minefield.), but if you knuckle under to murderous dictators, you pretty much surrender any moral authority to lecture me on anything.
 

UAH

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china barely even acknowledges that this happened. maybe it was fake news

China wants us to forget the horrors of Tiananmen as it rewrites its history
For what it is worth I spent several days in and around Tiananmen Square a few years ago. Your post caused me to think about how protesters would have no escape from the square once the military blocked the main street leading into and out of the government area. One of my recollections was how restrictive the tunnel was from the Forbidden City (Gugong) out onto the Square itself. This even on a normal weekday. To any degree even innocent bystanders could be easily trampled when violence erupted. In Beijing one does not have the feeling at all of an oppressed society although much more constrained and conservative than what we might experience in Atlanta for example.

 

Its On A Slab

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Socialism at it’s finest.
China is "socialist" in name only.

I think you are really thinking "authoritarian". China has billionaires. This isn't Mao's China. But they retained all the authoritarian facets of the old regime.

And regarding environmental policies, China is laissez faire, libertarian. They have hardly any safety and environmental laws. Hundreds die in Chinese mines each year. They have no use for an OSHA.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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China is "socialist" in name only.

I think you are really thinking "authoritarian". China has billionaires. This isn't Mao's China. But they retained all the authoritarian facets of the old regime.

And regarding environmental policies, China is laissez faire, libertarian. They have hardly any safety and environmental laws. Hundreds die in Chinese mines each year. They have no use for an OSHA.
Blaming it on "socialism" is easier, if not logical...
 

Tidewater

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Blaming it on "socialism" is easier, if not logical...
Tiananmen Square gets blamed on socialism only tangentially. The socialist ideal is so beautiful to its adherents that it justifies doing horrible things to people who get in the way. Add the Hegelism crap inherent in Marxism-Leninism and you produce an air of inevitability.
I think Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Minh were just a bunch of knucklegradding, murderous ignats.

My favorite socialist is Eduard Bernstein (who did more fr the well-being of the proletariat than Marx ever dreamed of), but you never see his face on a t-shirt because he did not murder enough people.
 
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Its On A Slab

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Tiananmen Square gets blamed on socialism only tangentially. The socialist ideal is so beautiful to its adherents that it justifies doing horrible things to people who get in the way. Add the Hegelism crap inherent in Marxism-Leninism and you produce an air of inevitability.
I think Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Minh were just a bunch of knucklegradding, murderous ignats.

My favorit socialist is Eduard Bernstein, but you never see his face on a t-shirt because he did not murder enough people.
I don't think you will find too much Marx & Engels in either country(Russia and China). Well, the vestiges of corruption and kleptocracy remain.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Tiananmen Square gets blamed on socialism only tangentially. The socialist ideal is so beautiful to its adherents that it justifies doing horrible things to people who get in the way. Add the Hegelism crap inherent in Marxism-Leninism and you produce an air of inevitability.
I think Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Minh were just a bunch of knucklegradding, murderous ignats.

My favorit socialist is Eduard Bernstein, but you never see his face on a t-shirt because he did not murder enough people.
China left socialism behind long ago. If it hadn't, it wouldn't have become the world's second economic power. It's market-driven from the word "go"...
 

Tidewater

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I don't think you will find too much Marx & Engels in either country(Russia and China). Well, the vestiges of corruption and kleptocracy remain.
Certainly not in Russia which no longer even expresses aspirational Marxism.
China still pays a bit of lip service to Marxism, but the CCP is all about maintaining power.
 

Aledinho

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To call China either communistic or socialistic betrays an ignorance of economics. Neither is true...
I am referring to their history as a communist country under Mao leading to their current state. A China that was never communist would probably be very similar to Taiwan.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I am referring to their history as a communist country under Mao leading to their current state. A China that was never communist would probably be very similar to Taiwan.
Hard to say, IMO. They've always been authoritarian. They've always been market-oriented, so their present system is natural for them. Whether or not they have more state-owned enterprise because of their Mao past is really up for grabs...
 

UAH

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True. I think China is far less of a kleptocracy than Russia...
Just finished Chernobyl on HBO. The failure of the Russian bureaucracy is in plain view without it being the focus of the producers. China has a completely different culture and history.
 

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