Link: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again - Page 4
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 40 to 52 of 61
  1. #40
    BamaNation Second Team DogPatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Tuscaloosa
    Posts
    232

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEyeshade View Post
    The campuses are on hills separated by a small valley and a series of train tracks. FAMU offers a rich social and cultural life for FSU athletes, much like Tuskegee gives Auburn’s African American players a reprieve from one of the whitest public universities in the South.
    I guess it's too much to ask that they focus on football and academics.

  2. #41
    BamaNation Third Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    42

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    When FSU hired Taggart he had a head coaching record of 47-50.... I do not see how this was a good hire regardless of what occurred in the Fisher and Bowden era. Taggart did a good job of helping to rebuild USF, but I still don't see how hiring a coach with a losing record in 97 games coached is a good move

    Taggart MIGHT get FSU to a 9 win team by his 4th or 5th season, but with the way they have been recruiting at OL, DL, and QB... it's not going to happen

  3. #42
    BamaNation All-American bamamc1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haleyville, AL
    Posts
    3,122

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    So many things.....

    FSU did mess up when they kept Bowden around several years too many. He was never a stickler for discipline, and it got worse as he aged.

    Fisher, however, took it to an entirely different level with his coddling of Jameis. True, he won a NC. But he tanked the program for several years afterward....I wonder how many FSU fans would make that one-year bargain if they knew what lay in store for years afterward.

    In the leadup to the 2017 kickoff, the consensus of the talking heads was a foregone conclusion that, after the season opener in Atlanta, UA and FSU would match up again for it all in Tampa. It didn't work out that way, and a lot of pundits depend on the attention span of their constituency to absolve them of their comments during that summer. Put another way, in about 20 months, FSU went from co-favorite for the NC to a clown car circling a dumpster fire, which dumpster fire was caused by a nearby train wreck.

    Point being, the current situation was foreseen by just about nobody. So the 20 / 20 hindsight we hear them braying today is most disingenuous.

    Here's the bottom line as I see it: Jimbo Fisher is a good technical coach. He might be a great offensive coach / developer of quarterbacks. He is, however, not the best evaluator of potential, and is penny wise and pound foolish on any number of fronts. Those shortcomings will prevent him from winning anything worthwhile....absent a generational player, most probably a QB.

    He jumped from the FSU governance (that could charitably be described as inconsistent) to one at least as dysfunctional as what we see today in Lee County. So I don't see anything allowing him to implement lessons learned from previous shortcomings -- assuming he learned any at all. On the contrary, I see an aTm governance structure that emphasizes the very characteristics in which he has shown himself to be deficient in the past.

    So yes, this piece reads like a simultaneous apology for Willie Taggart's own shortcomings, and throwing his predecessor (Fisher) under the bus.

    An excellent job by the Taggart / FSU PR machine. We'll know what's what by mid-October...at both aTm and FSU...and there'll be no way to spin it.
    Take a look at the rankings of the recruiting classes that were on that 2017 team. All Top 5. Jumbo Fisher is way OVERRATED.

  4. #43
    BamaNation Second Team
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    80

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    For all the good he accomplished at FSU, the ridiculous situation created by Bobby Bowden wanting to hang on longer than Joe Paterno really laid the groundwork for the demise.

    I've never "seen it" with Jimbo. ESPN keeps telling everyone how great he is, but I'm of a different opinion.


    That 10 year contract thrown by Texas A&M is quite a gamble, to say the least.

  5. #44
    FB|BB Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Burbs of Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    4,823

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    How did Jimbo tank the program after the NC?

    He went to 1 playoff, 2 New Years 6 games during the reign of Deshaun, and probably was in a far better situation in 2017 had Francois not gone down. I think it’s fair to he might’ve let his divorce get the best of him from 2015-2017, but let’s stop acting like his 5-6 2017 season is in anyway the same as Taggart’s 5-7. Jimbo at least can make the argument that he only got blown out once while his quarterback was out for the year and beat Florida on the road. Taggart was in a dogfight with Samford, got blown 5/6 losses, and lost to Florida with a team full of preseason awards watch list players.

    I don’t see how exactly any of 2018 was Jimbo’s fault unless you make the case that there was a can’t miss recruit from the 2018 class that could’ve had an immediate impact that Jimbo missed, but then again “why couldn’t Taggart got him back to Tallahassee?”

    FSU is on shaky legs because they believed Jimbo was going to be like Bobby and Mike Martin in that they stay for life and don’t make financial demands. They were wrong. Then they hire Willie because they know he won’t make those demands either. The only problem is they know the natives realize Taggart isn’t going to win a championship and probably won’t get them to 10 wins within 4 years, and they have to find a way to divert attention elsewhere before they see for sale signs in lawns.
    After some more research, I stand by the tanking characterization.

    Fisher's success can be better characterized as a function of Jameis Winston. In the three year post-Winston era, the 'Noles first showed some signs of cracking, then they got worse, then the bottom fell out. That's tanking.

    Jameis' last season was 2014. In 2015, the Noles lost three games, two of which were in the ACC (one to eventual NC Clemson...no shame there), and one of which was to an unranked team. But that doesn't tell the whole story. There were also close calls to Boston College, Wake Forest and Miami, all unranked teams. The Noles won all three, but the wheels were clearly beginning to squeak. Scored only 14 points at BC. Won by 8 at Wake as an 18 point favorite (2 WF turnovers were killer there). As an 8.5 point favorite, had to come from behind at home to win in the 4th quarter against a Miami team that ended the season 8-5.

    Taken individually, each of those can be explained away. Taken collectively, it's clear that there were cracks.

    2016

    More erosion, with three ACC losses.

    Lost by 43 to #10 Louisville and Lamar Jackson. It's not the loss so much as being blown out 63-20. And a look at the stats will tell you the game wasn't even that close. FSU was down 63-10 before scoring 10 points in the last five minutes -- including an embarrassing FG inside of 2 minutes while down 63-17.

    Lost to unranked UNC at home. Lost to Clemson -- again, no shame there.

    The best win looked like at #10 Miami....until Miami followed up with three straight subsequent losses to unranked teams.

    They beat Michigan in the Orange Bowl, which created the expectations for the 2017 season (cue ominous music).

    2017

    The wheels had been squeaking. This is where they fell off.

    First game: A loss to Alabama that wasn't as close as the score. FSU never could generate any offense, and a porous OL was getting Francois pounded all night. Sitting in a low row, I actually had a decent feel for the beating he was taking, and it was brutal. Why Fisher left him in the game after it was no longer in doubt is beyond me. He was already beat to a pulp when his knee (and FSU's season) finally blew out.

    Follow that up with five more losses and an embarrassing argument over whether an FCS game could count toward bowl eligibility (the NCAA said it could). Giving incontrovertible evidence that his mind had been elsewhere, Fisher de-camped for aTm before the regular season was even over -- an assistant coached the final regular-season game against La Monroe, as well as the bowl.

    And all the more damning is the combination of material he had to work with and the overall weakness of the ACC (outside of Clemson, of course).

    24/7 Ranking of FSU's recruiting classes leading up to Fisher's exit:

    2017 #6
    2016 #3
    2015 #3
    2014 #4
    2013 #11

    That performance, in that conference, with that material, is dismantling a program.
    Last edited by 4Q Basket Case; June 28th, 2019 at 07:28 AM.
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  6. #45
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    19,739

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgAlum2054 View Post
    When FSU hired Taggart he had a head coaching record of 47-50.... I do not see how this was a good hire regardless of what occurred in the Fisher and Bowden era. Taggart did a good job of helping to rebuild USF, but I still don't see how hiring a coach with a losing record in 97 games coached is a good move

    Taggart MIGHT get FSU to a 9 win team by his 4th or 5th season, but with the way they have been recruiting at OL, DL, and QB... it's not going to happen
    If you include Gene Stallings's NFL tenure, he was 50-89 when Alabama hired him.

    If you go only off college head coaching, he was 27-45, substantially worse than Taggart.


    I don't disagree with your assessment, I just think the details are all wrong.


    A lot of folks don't seem to realize that success at a Boise St or USF does NOT transfer into "this coach can win big." Sometimes (Tressel) it does - sometimes it does not.
    My New Year's resolution for 2019 is this year I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less, either.

    I was married for 25 years, but if I'd killed her on the honeymoon, I'd have been out in less than 20.

    Butch Jones has richly earned his title, The Archbishop of Talentbury

    After reading all the horrible things drinking will do to you....I gave up reading.

  7. #46
    BamaNation Second Team
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    80

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    LOTS of crap going on in Fisher's world.

    His wife was screwing Taylor Jacobs, a former Florida receiver.

    Bunch of drama with that.

    Covered up police incident reports, etc., etc., etc.,.................

  8. #47
    BamaNation First Team
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Williamson County, TN
    Posts
    264

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    my guess is that texas a and m is probably in for the same
    I agree. I never quite understood the love affair with Jimbo, take away J. Winston and what's left is just another 8-4 ACC program.

  9. #48
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sylacauga,AL
    Posts
    11,190

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamc1 View Post
    Take a look at the rankings of the recruiting classes that were on that 2017 team. All Top 5. Jumbo Fisher is way OVERRATED.
    You must also think this:

    "Take a look at all of the future hall of famers on the 2008 New England Patriots team that didn't make the playoffs due to Tom Brady being injured in the first game... Bill Belichick is way OVERRATED."
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

    Hannibal

  10. #49
    BamaNation Hall of Fame
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Tuscaloosa
    Posts
    18,804

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Valley View View Post
    I agree. I never quite understood the love affair with Jimbo, take away J. Winston and what's left is just another 8-4 ACC program.
    I disagree. He immediately pulled FSU out the ditch Bowden's leadership malaise.

    Bowden's last three seasons: 7-6, 9-4, 7-6.

    Fisher's FSU tenure: 10-4 (ACCCG appearance), 9-4, 12-2 (ACC title), 14-0 (ACC and BCS title), 13-1 (ACC Title, CFP semis appearance), 10-3, 10-3, 7-6.

    They only lost more than 3 games twice his entire tenure and one of them was when they lost their starting QB in the first game and the wheels fell off as he decided to scoot out the door to College Station. I think his problem at FSU was less about player discipline - that program has never been great on that front yet still competed at a high level - but instead his constant battle with the administration to get more capital improvement funding and higher pay for his staff and himself. Eventually this fractured relationship at the administrative level became a problem at the team level because his commitment to "the guys" started to be questioned in the locker room. FSU is basically just telling on themselves here and unfortunately got backed into hiring a guy who will spend most of his time trying to scrub a half-century of bad culture before getting canned. FSU has a bad reputation for investing in their program because much like Spurrier I don't think Bowden really thought that stuff was necessary considering they're in Florida and you aren't that far from the beach.
    Last edited by rgw; June 30th, 2019 at 03:51 PM.
    I owe it to the people to have a signature...so here goes nothing!

  11. #50
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    19,739

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quite frankly, I learned how insanely stupid Jimbo Fisher is when he called those timeouts in the final seconds of a "we have no prayer at winning this game" in BDS last fall.

    It would have served him right for 3 of his best players to get carted off with season-ending injuries after that - and no, I'm not "wishing" that on any human being.

    But football is a game that does awful things to the human body, and you don't run unnecessary snaps for precisely that reason.

    If they had been 14 points down, I'd have still thought it kinda lame but at least in the grander scheme it would have made sense.

    He was 22 down and there was literally chance of winning.


    He was almost like the Bizarro Les Miles.
    My New Year's resolution for 2019 is this year I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less, either.

    I was married for 25 years, but if I'd killed her on the honeymoon, I'd have been out in less than 20.

    Butch Jones has richly earned his title, The Archbishop of Talentbury

    After reading all the horrible things drinking will do to you....I gave up reading.

  12. #51
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TideEngineer08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Beautiful Cullman, AL
    Posts
    17,578

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by FairlyAmazing View Post
    LOTS of crap going on in Fisher's world.

    His wife was screwing Taylor Jacobs, a former Florida receiver.

    Bunch of drama with that.

    Covered up police incident reports, etc., etc., etc.,.................
    Geez it's bad enough she was doing that but to do it with an alumnus of FSU's biggest rival? Ruthless.

  13. #52
    Super Moderator RTR91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Prattville
    Posts
    39,239
    Thread Starter

    Re: The Mess Jimbo Left: Inside FSU's Fall and Willie Taggart's Plan to Rise Again

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    Quite frankly, I learned how insanely stupid Jimbo Fisher is when he called those timeouts in the final seconds of a "we have no prayer at winning this game" in BDS last fall.

    It would have served him right for 3 of his best players to get carted off with season-ending injuries after that - and no, I'm not "wishing" that on any human being.

    But football is a game that does awful things to the human body, and you don't run unnecessary snaps for precisely that reason.

    If they had been 14 points down, I'd have still thought it kinda lame but at least in the grander scheme it would have made sense.

    He was 22 down and there was literally chance of winning.


    He was almost like the Bizarro Les Miles.
    I put that more on his ego than stupidity. Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between the two, though.
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
    -- Coach Bryant

    "We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
    -- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

TideFansStore.com Bama Gear