DNC Debates, Round 2 - Page 5
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  1. #53
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas666 View Post
    It took a perfect storm to elect Trump in 2016.
    I think people tend to forget that. He lost the popular vote by 3 million and scraped by with 77K votes in just the right places. Normally, incumbency vastly helps a president. In this case, with his abysmal ratings, I think it will work in reverse - if the Democrats come up with a decent candidate...
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  2. #54
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Bama View Post
    Youíre probably right although in my mind the Kennedy/Nixon debates did help Kennedy win the election. You may know better.
    I think it's fair to concede that as a contributing factor, but where I would divert is that that particular year of debates was completely different from what we have now. They weren't "really" aware precisely how television could change the thing because they were learning.

    But by 1992, every single debate was a scripted campaign speech. It was already getting that way some in 1988, but it got really bad that year - and then it went full on insane in the 96 GOP debates.

    So I wouldn't dispute your assessment because JFK didn't. He was clear that he would have lost without the debates. However, JFK did not in any way clean Nixon's clock, either. He "won" because he looked calmer and more self-assured.

    I watched a few 1988 Democratic primary debates - and BY FAR the best debater and candidate was Jesse Jackson. He had the wittiest lines, he came across as the least programmed candidate, and he looked Presidential (yes, he did).


    He also didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.


    The "defining moment" (if you will) in the 2016 GOP race was when Chris Christie cut Marco Rubio to shreds on his claim of a "reading from a script." The funny thing is that to a large degree they all do that in these debates, but what Rubio SHOULD have done was something like this:

    "Governor, I'm being consistent with what I say, which means I use the same words to communicate. I'm being consistent; a script is what Mr Trump reads from as a reality TV star. A script is what he gave you to make that point. And a script is what your appointees were following when they closed the George Washington Bridge. But as I'm open to taking advice, I will endeavor to expand my vocabulary a bit while remaining consistent."

    His failure wasn't the reading from the script, it was how he handled it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Bama View Post
    Iíve already made my mind up to vote for whoever stands the best chance of beating Trump so these Democratic debates will help me decide who to support. For example, I suspect if Sanders or Warren weíre to be nominated taxes would be dramatically raised, thus raising payroll taxes and possibly driving me out of business.

    There was nothing to hold over Trumpís head in the 2016 election. He was not a Washington politician. Now he is.
    The flip side to that is that no matter how much or little credit he deserves for it, we are at peace and the economy is humming along. And those two issues are what most folks vote, which is why though I concur with jthomas's observation of the perfect storm, the tendency to re-fight the last war is not going to help the Democrats (I think that's a lot of the problem with both Bernie and Biden).

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Bama View Post
    Hopefully a good debater like Harris or Buttigieg can hold Donald Trumpís feet to the fire. Harris being a former prosecutor should be well equipped for the task. Whether or not it makes a difference in the election, I want to see that happen. Of course, I donít know if I can afford Harris either, but Iím 100% certain Trump has to go.
    Look, I'll even be one to grant there would be a certain poetic/karmic justice in Trump losing to a minority female candidate. But keeping your support is as simple as following G W Bush's way of debating: get back to the 3 points you want to make. (Bill Clinton was a master at this, but he had the intellect to sound like he was saying something more expansive than he actually was).

    Just remember - 2011 and 2012 Alabama was about as close to an unbeatable machine as you're gonna see - and they lost two games. Trump isn't God, so he's not unbeatable.
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  3. #55

    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    I think people tend to forget that. He lost the popular vote by 3 million and scraped by with 77K votes in just the right places. Normally, incumbency vastly helps a president. In this case, with his abysmal ratings, I think it will work in reverse - if the Democrats come up with a decent candidate...
    That rallies and excites ALL the D voters. The problem is lately it seems that the Dems are "my guy/gal or nobody" voters - precisely how Trump won in '16. If that happens again, he can win again.

    The R voters are far more 'party over candidate' than the D's have shown. And we're all dealing with that fallout.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  4. #56
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    That rallies and excites ALL the D voters. The problem is lately it seems that the noisiest Dems are "my guy/gal or nobody" voters - precisely how Trump won in '16. If that happens again, he can win again.

    The R voters are far more 'party over candidate' than the D's have shown. And we're all dealing with that fallout.
    fify. i think that is what is being portrayed, but i think it is being blown way out of proportion. also remember, we have a foreign adversary that has made it obvious that they are going to once again interfere with our elections and i bet a lot of that interference will again come in the form of general attempts to blow these types of things out of proportion. it (among several other things) worked against hillary.

    How Twitter Bots Help Fuel Political Feuds
    Automated social media accounts can create “misinformation networks” that spread falsehoods and fan the flames of partisan disagreement


    New data suggests Russians targeted Bernie Sanders voters to help elect Trump
    Clemson researchers find thousands of Russian tweets urging Sanders supporters not to vote for Hillary Clinton
    Last edited by 92tide; June 28th, 2019 at 01:26 PM. Reason: edited for clarity and to add links
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  5. #57
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    fify. i think that is what is being portrayed, but i think it is being blown way out of proportion. also remember, we have a foreign adversary that has made it obvious that they are going to once again interfere with our elections and i bet a lot of that interference will again come in the form of general attempts to portray these types of things.
    There was an NPR story this morning where they interviewed some Bernie supporters after the debate and many of them were still pro Bernie but VERY open to other candidates. Obviously that's anecdotal but still...

    EDIT: forgot to say they were interviewing people who attended the debate IIRC.
    Last edited by RollTide_HTTR; June 28th, 2019 at 01:24 PM.

  6. #58
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  7. #59
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    I think people tend to forget that. He lost the popular vote by 3 million and scraped by with 77K votes in just the right places. Normally, incumbency vastly helps a president. In this case, with his abysmal ratings, I think it will work in reverse - if the Democrats come up with a decent candidate...
    When I read comments on You Tube and Facebook post regarding Trump and McConnell for example, I most often see bitter dissatisfaction represented in the majority of comments. It is similar here on Tidefans particularly considering the heavy Alabama representation. My point is that I don't believe this dissatisfaction, that led to the Democratic House wins last year, is truly reflected in the polls. Democrats have a great opportunity to win by attracting moderate voters if they offer practical long term solutions versus pie in the sky non quantified promises as Bernie is prone to do.

  8. #60
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    If this President was actually capable of:
    a) listening to someone else
    b) able to shut his own mouth

    .......he'd have this thing as much in the bag as the Trumpkin Village of Cult 45 thinks it already is.
    My New Year's resolution for 2019 is this year I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less, either.

    I was married for 25 years, but if I'd killed her on the honeymoon, I'd have been out in less than 20.

    Butch Jones has richly earned his title, The Archbishop of Talentbury

    After reading all the horrible things drinking will do to you....I gave up reading.

  9. #61
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    If this President was actually capable of:
    a) listening to someone else
    b) able to shut his own mouth

    .......he'd have this thing as much in the bag as the Trumpkin Village of Cult 45 thinks it already is.

    So, if he was a completely different person? Yea sure. Assuming there isn't a recession in the next 12 months that is.

  10. #62
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Amazing how these social platforms can be manipulated in such a destructive manner!

  11. #63
    BamaNation All-American CrimsonNagus's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Not really that amazing when you remind yourself that Facebook was born out of a destructive idea called Facemash, which was a ďhot or notĒ site for comparing female Harvard students.

    FB and Twitter have always been about manipulating data for profit but, for some reason people continue to think these companies are on their side.

  12. #64

    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    Amazing how these social platforms can be manipulated in such a destructive manner!
    It's equally amazing that people fall for it.

    Those bot programmers are clever, but not there yet. Give them another cycle and the posts will be different enough from one another that a simple search won't find them, yet the same distorted messages will be delivered...
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  13. #65
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    First salvo from the birther community if Harris is the nominee.


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