DNC Debates, Round 2 - Page 8
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  1. #92
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Yet you still believe a "progressive" candidate will win while acknowledging the fact that the majority of the voting electorate is conservative.... I guess Obama and Bill Clinton winning by large numbers points that centrists are not electable.
    Clinton and Obama got elected because they were charismatic enough to build enough of a coalition out of the multiple single-issue group rickshaw that is the DNP. Trump got elected because half of the country thought HRC was a demon, a quarter thought she screwed Bernie out of the nomination, and the rest thought she was good enough to vote for since Obama couldn’t run again.

    Policy specificity is going to hurt more candidates on the Democratic side far more than anything Trump can do primarily because out of the lot of them, only Harris seems willing to use the 15 second attention span of the American media and public to her advantage. I think the recent debate was her third time saying she wanted to get rid of private insurance, only to walk it back. The remaining candidates besides “moon flower love child” all have some semblance of attempting to stay on message. Well except for Biden, but it’s not his fault senility appears to be catching up to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

  2. #93
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    The fact 16 years between Clinton and Obama of compromising bipartisanship led to a progressively worse president and more right leaning GOP each time they reached term limit.
    I owe it to the people to have a signature...so here goes nothing!

  3. #94
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    The fact 16 years between Clinton and Obama of compromising bipartisanship led to a progressively worse president and more right leaning GOP each time they reached term limit.


    Still doesn't explain how fascism is the new American reality
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  4. #95
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    The move right happened with Reagan, not Daddy Bush. The Cold War was giving Americans two choices... 1) A more social reform with a conservative interior for an administration or 2) A deep conservative administration. Reagan brought neo liberalism to the fold and pretty much ended the gap between Republicans and Democrats because 1) The Republicans now wanted to be the party of Reagan and 2) the Democrats didn't want to get smoked like Carter did for standing up for well meaning principles. Basically the Nixon-Kennedy divide was done. Point is there isn't that much different between a candidate like Reagan and the Clintons.

    If you are strictly saying that Gingrich winning the House was the start of the shift right and not Reagan destroying the old Democratic Party then yes the rise of radio was the start of it.
    you are correct. i am referring more to the stark framing of conservatism/gop=good liberal=bad that really took off with gingrich and talk radio.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  5. #96
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Still doesn't explain how fascism is the new American reality
    Concentration camps, blood and soil nationalism, unrepresentative government.
    I owe it to the people to have a signature...so here goes nothing!

  6. #97
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    Concentration camps, blood and soil nationalism, .
    Are those unique to fascist states?

  7. #98
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    The fact 16 years between Clinton and Obama of compromising bipartisanship led to a progressively worse president and more right leaning GOP each time they reached term limit.
    Is Warren far enough left for you? Just curious...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  8. #99
    BamaNation Hall of Fame jthomas666's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Is Warren far enough left for you? Just curious...
    TBH, she's further left than I prefer; however, she really sweats the details, and that's the kind of president we're gonna need to repair what Trump hath wrought.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  9. #100
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas666 View Post
    TBH, she's further left than I prefer; however, she really sweats the details, and that's the kind of president we're gonna need to repair what Trump hath wrought.
    same here, but it doesn't really bother me. as we saw with obama, there's only so much you can do with a majority, even with a super majority. i want someone sane, rational and capable in the position.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  10. #101
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Is Warren far enough left for you? Just curious...
    She would be the most progressive president since FDR in all likelihood. I doubt her ability to push the things that I think will have the most appreciable benefit to the masses and create a devoted electorate to progressive politics. She's an econ/financial wonk at the end of the day and while those reforms are important their affects are long to be felt by the average person (and they won't realize it when they feel it). Plus they can be easily undone if you don't create the progressive policy stickiness with direct effect to the average person.
    Last edited by rgw; June 30th, 2019 at 07:47 PM.
    I owe it to the people to have a signature...so here goes nothing!

  11. #102
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    I think the two most important things for the next president to accomplish in their first four years: single-payer healthcare and higher education reform + broad student loan forgiveness. It is telling the REALTORS is coming out in favor of student loan reform/forgiveness. They realize their whole market is heavily curtailed by the sheer weight of education debt with their upcoming major customer base. This will affect construction and other home-ownership proximate industries eventually too.


    These directly affect people and will make an immediate appreciable impact on individual well-being and wealth accumulation. You give the people these changes and you will create a voting bloc that will allow the higher order nuanced issues to get pushed through too. The only thing that they may want to push before those two things - whoever the president may be - is congressional reformation of the federal court systems. Term limits to bound the repercussions of appointments. Maybe even expansion of the Supreme Court to stuff the courts and assure a favorable ruling on social welfare reforms getting challenged.
    Last edited by rgw; June 30th, 2019 at 08:17 PM.
    I owe it to the people to have a signature...so here goes nothing!

  12. #103
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Call student loan forgiveness a form of reparations and kill two birds with one stone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

  13. #104
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: DNC Debates, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Are those unique to fascist states?
    well, we are probably going to get some fascist cosplay at the 4th of july celebration. especially if the pentagon lets cheetolini have his tank parade at his lincoln memorial campaign rally
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

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