Who are your all-time top five Alabama quarterbacks?

selmaborntidefan · Jul 4, 2019

The case for Namath, summarized, is:
a) leadership capacity
b) athleticism
c) football intelligence
d) his college stats IN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR TIME are not bad (they would be borderline awful today)

A reminder of the time: Roger Staubach won the 1963 Heisman Trophy with 7 TDs and 7 INT. The key point for him was completing 2/3 of his passes, a phenomenal feat in 1963.

Namath also had 7 TDs and 7 INT that year, but he also had a lower completion pct and less than 1/2 the yards on a better overall team.

81usaf92 · Jul 4, 2019

I’m kinda surprised no one has made a case for our single game passing yards holder when he threw for way more yards than Joe Namath. I guess being known as a jerk and not winning a national championship really hurts your legacy at Alabama.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 4, 2019

81usaf92 said:
I’m kinda surprised no one has made a case for our single game passing yards holder when he threw for way more yards than Joe Namath. I guess being known as a jerk and not winning a national championship really hurts your legacy at Alabama.

Are you referring to Hunter?

(I've been wondering why I haven't seen his name....but to my knowledge, he played during a "not so good" era.

81usaf92 · Jul 4, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
Are you referring to Hunter?

(I've been wondering why I haven't seen his name....but to my knowledge, he played during a "not so good" era.

Yes

selmaborntidefan · Jul 4, 2019

81usaf92 said:
Yes

So is he a jerk? I only hear his name when someone gets to musing about Ole Miss and 1969 and "those were the best days of my life" stuff.

81usaf92 · Jul 4, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
So is he a jerk? I only hear his name when someone gets to musing about Ole Miss and 1969 and "those were the best days of my life" stuff.

It seems pretty much everyone that has or says they have met him says so. It’s a big reason many were disappointed that CNS and CLK took the ball out of Blake’s hand when he was in striking distance. Really no one but Blake has ever been close to it in the last 50 years.

But it’s also odd that Hunter set the record in a game that Auburn blew us out in the Bryant era. But he is most known for the duel with Archie.

UAH · Jul 4, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
Thank you for your courteous reply (I expected nothing less from you btw).

Not to disagree, but I don't see his name on the list.

Now, he did have an MVP performance against Texas and FOR THE TIME his numbers in that game are pretty good (18 for 37, 255 yds, 2 TD).

My only objection here would be this idea that we base things on 1-2 games. However - in defense of Joe - most games in that day were not televised so all they could go off of was hype or stats or what they heard on TV.

Let's be clear: in terms of ABILITY, Joe Namath was miles ahead of Jay Barker or Pat Trammell, something I don't think either of those men would dispute. So I can see part of the argument as well, which is why I asked this question. Statistics are the lens through which we look, but it can be distorted by things as well.

Hell, Notre Dame has a bunch of guys who won the Heisman for no reason other than they played for Notre Dame. The tongue bathing media that built up Ndaumkong Suh and Manti Teo as Heisman candidates (or Charles Woodson just to be blunt) is a sick joke.

This is a good observation and one we do well to remember.

Jay Barker - in terms of "would you pick this guy to build your team around" - might not even rate in the top ten all-time at Alabama in terms of ability. For three years, he ho-hummed along as a Greg McElroy type player but made more mistakes. His senior year, he was VERY good. But I actually think in terms of the talent as a QB (not considering the WR talent), I think Jalen Hurts is light years ahead of Barker, who was one of my favorite players.

But Barker has some AJ-type stats mostly because he had an all-world defense at the critical time.

CONTEXT is everything here.

One additional comment about Namath in the 65 Orange Bowl Game against Texas. Steve Sloan started the game with Namath on the bench with a knee injury. Sloan could not move the ball at all against the Tommy Nobis led Texas Defense. Texas put up two quick touchdowns and appeared on their way to a beat down of Alabama. Namath entered the game and was magnificent at bringing Alabama back in what was one of the greatest games ever played on National TV up to that time. Regardless of where he should be ranked as QB at Alabama he certainly can be said to have Quarterbacked two of the most memorable games in football history. By the way, as improbable as it seems, the laces would make an audible whistle on his sideline throws, much in the way a Koufax curve ball would sound!

tusks_n_raider · Jul 5, 2019

1) Tua Tagovailoa
2) AJ McCarron
3) Joe Namath
4) Kenny Stabler
5) Bart Starr

Honorable Mentions: Brodie Croyle, Blake Sims, Jake Coker

colbysullivan · Jul 5, 2019

I’m 38 years old so I have seen my fair share of Bama QBs over the years but obviously missed out on the Namaths and the Stablers. I won’t rank them but I’ll say this, I love watching Tua throw the ball. It’s a thing of beauty to see how accurate he is.

Also, I’m really curious what a 3 year starter version of Blake Sims and Jake Coker would look like. Those guys made some incredible plays that made my jaw drop. I remember watching Blake torch Florida’s secondary in 2014 but he also made some throws on the run that were incredible. Coker had a TD pass against Auburn where he avoided a sack and threw and absolute dime to Stewart. That throw took my breath away.

BamaMoon · Jul 5, 2019

81usaf92 said:
So this is more of “ I don’t like the label of game manager when it pertains to AJ”.

You asked about 2 games in 2012 in which we could’ve easily ran the ball to win both games, not any games in 2011 or 2013. AJ became one of the greatest qbs in Bama history in 2013 not 2012 is my point. In that season he was doing more for the offense than he ever did in his previous two years. Too bad he still had a donkey for an OC or else he would’ve played for 3 NCs.

But to address both games that you brought up:

2012 LSU: AJ had a qbr of 47 and a just over 50% passing completion percentage. On the other hand Lacy had 83 yards with 7.5 ypc and Yeldon had 76 yards with 7.9 ypc. The story of the game was Nuss abandoning the run in the 2nd half

2012 UGA: AJ has a 35 qbr with BOTH Yeldon and Lacy over 150 yards. 90% of our troubles in that game revolved around AJ passing in the 1st half instead of pounding the ball. Thank god CNS didn’t let Nuss call another horrible game like he did vs LSU and aTm.

Neither of those games needed AJ until they did. We could’ve ran the ball 90% of the plays called and won going away. Dumb play calling led to both being classics.

AJ in 2012 was a game manager and there is no way around it. He was just a better version of Jay Barker and Gmac. His job was hand it off and make a pass here and there. In 2013 he didn’t have the line or the running backs ( yes he had Henry but we hardly used him).

Btw if you believe Scott Frost was the best qb to play in the 1998 Orange Bowl then I think you really need to rewatch some film on both qbs. The point was one of the greatest college qbs of all time failed to win the two biggest prizes but yet a cog was able to win a national championship on 12 passes.

Man, if I said the sky was blue you'd say it's another color and sometimes you'd be right because it might sometimes be red, yellow or black. But that doesn't change the fact it's usually blue.

So on this topic, AJ was a great (I'd say the greatest) Alabama QB (based on his play at Bama) and that's like the sky being blue.

Was AJ perfect? No. Was he a game manager type because that's what he was tasked to do? Yes. Did he have some games where he hurt us with his play? Yes, but what QB (at any level) doesn't? So yes, sometimes the sky is red, yellow or black and sometimes AJ wasn't good.

But my point is, man, we were lucky to have him and you fail to give him his proper credit.

I admit I'm partial to him and maybe my first post "overstated" the importance of NCs in this discussion but I knew as soon as I saw the OP that AJ wouldn't get his proper credit.

BTW, I never said Frost was better than Manning...

BamaMoon · Jul 5, 2019

Just looking at Alabama QB stats. Next year Tua will need 4500 yards to have the alltime "total yardage record."

I don't think he'll catch AJ because last year he was just under 4000 and we threw it all over the lot. I image he'll have less this year if we emphasize/lean on the run more than last year.

However, regardless of what happens next year with stats, unless Tua just stinks it up, he'll probably be regarded as a greatest QB of all time in terms of pure QB skills.

TheBamaBeno · Jul 5, 2019

I think that mark is within reach. Last season 3/4's of the games were over at halftime and Tua gave way to Jalen after only one or two series in the 3rd quarter. I see him playing 3 quarters plus this year. His 355 pass attempts last year was only good for 52nd in the country.

81usaf92 · Jul 5, 2019

BamaMoon said:
Man, if I said the sky was blue you'd say it's another color and sometimes you'd be right because it might sometimes be red, yellow or black. But that doesn't change the fact it's usually blue.

So on this topic, AJ was a great (I'd say the greatest) Alabama QB (based on his play at Bama) and that's like the sky being blue.

Was AJ perfect? No. Was he a game manager type because that's what he was tasked to do? Yes. Did he have some games where he hurt us with his play? Yes, but what QB (at any level) doesn't? So yes, sometimes the sky is red, yellow or black and sometimes AJ wasn't good.

But my point is, man, we were lucky to have him and you fail to give him his proper credit.

..

How is saying “AJ is in the Top 5” not giving him “proper credit”. You clearly said “I dare someone to not put AJ in the top 5” (which is looking more and more like a statement directed towards you trying to get back at the folks that were right about AJ’s NFL starter prospects that you had a hard time with the facts with) and where did I put him???? Answer: “in the Top 5”. Meaning I gave him proper credit. So spare me this victimhood crap that AJ isn’t of not getting the credit he is due just because you don’t agree at the way he is given the credit he is due in a different way. Not everyone of us sing the praises of AJ to the mountaintop like you do.

BamaMoon · Jul 5, 2019

TheBamaBeno said:
I think that mark is within reach. Last season 3/4's of the games were over at halftime and Tua gave way to Jalen after only one or two series in the 3rd quarter. I see him playing 3 quarters plus this year. His 355 pass attempts last year was only good for 52nd in the country.

If he throws for 5000 yards and we win it all I'm fine with that. However, I think CNS will want us to be more balanced and, therefore, I think we'll run the ball more to establish "the Bama factor."

But, by doing this, Tua may play deeper into our games than he did last year.

But, when all is said and done, I'd rather Tua only throw for 3000 yards and us win a NC than for him to have another great stastical year and us come up short again.

81usaf92 · Jul 5, 2019

TheBamaBeno said:
I think that mark is within reach. Last season 3/4's of the games were over at halftime and Tua gave way to Jalen after only one or two series in the 3rd quarter. I see him playing 3 quarters plus this year. His 355 pass attempts last year was only good for 52nd in the country.

He could’ve done it in practically any game, but CNS took the ball out of his hand. I don’t think we will ever see it with the state of the SEC offenses unless it’s vs UGA. The 2014 Florida game should’ve destroyed the record but I think CNS was worried about Blake’s health after being knocked out for a drive. Had that not happened then I think he would’ve broken it.

JBama_in_PCOLA · Jul 5, 2019

5. Jay Barker
4. Jalen Hurts
3. Blake Sims
2. AJ McCarron
1. Tua Tagavailoa

tusks_n_raider · Jul 5, 2019

BamaMoon I agree with you about AJ not getting his due credit.....anymore.

I remember more than one thread on here discussing "Is AJ McCarron the greatest Alabama QB of All-Time" around 2013.

From what I remember it seemed like the majority of fans here were ready to pass that title over to him....

Then.... his post 2013 season comments happened and MANY here got extra salty over it and are still holding a grudge.

It petty and ridiculous.

Oh and with regards to Scott Hunter being brought up: He is a MAJOR JERK.

I worked in Banking in Daphne AL in the mid-90's to early 00's while I was making my way through college and I had the displeasure of interacting with Hunter dozens of time as well as seeing/hearing him interacting with many of my female coworkers.

He is unbelievably arrogant, condescending, and just flat out rude. I can't properly describe just what a donkey he is w/o breaking forum language policy.

81usaf92 · Jul 5, 2019

It’s funny that the title is “who is your top 5 Alabama QBs of all time” and about 95% of posters have AJ in their list. But yet we have 2 posters saying he is not getting his due credit. Some of y’all need to understand what the distinction of “Top 5 best” of anything over 100 years means because if y’all did then you all would know that AJ has gotten all the credit he has earned and then some.

BamaMoon · Jul 5, 2019

81usaf92 said:
How is saying “AJ is in the Top 5” not giving him “proper credit”. You clearly said “I dare someone to not put AJ in the top 5” (which is looking more and more like a statement directed towards you trying to get back at the folks that were right about AJ’s NFL starter prospects that you had a hard time with the facts with) and where did I put him???? Answer: “in the Top 5”. Meaning I gave him proper credit. So spare me this victimhood crap that AJ isn’t of not getting the credit he is due just because you don’t agree at the way he is given the credit he is due in a different way. Not everyone of us sing the praises of AJ to the mountaintop like you do.

You did rank him in your top five. I was referring more to not giving him as much credit for the contributions he made toward 2011 and '12 NCs.

We disagree on AJ some, but it's OK.

I'll bow out by giving my top 5, but I'm just going to rank those I saw/remember playing:

1. Tua - I'm projecting a little here because I think with another solid season this is how we'll remember him.
2. AJ
3. JPW - three solid seasons with not the best talent around him
4. Brodie - wondering what if he hadn't got hurt
5. Tie - Steadman Shelley, Jay Barker, Gmac, Coker and Jalen for NC contributions

bamamoss2 · Jul 6, 2019

Tider6972 said:
WOW!

Steadman Shealy ! ...the forgotten Champion (Winning IS what it's about!)

Richard Todd! Ist rounder! Starter for the Jets for many years.

Joe Willie
The Great and Awesome, real person, Ken Stabler
AJ McCarron

Refresh my memory, please. What were Todd's major collegiate achievements?

Who are your all-time top five Alabama quarterbacks?

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