Link: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU? - Page 6
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  1. #66
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU?

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    Seriously... It's turned into the white helmet discussion.
    At this point I don't really care what people think about Tua or Hurts (I wish people had been right about Tua being invincible), but I would think they'd know better than to think Saban just forgot how to be a good football coach on his way to winning another national championship.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; July 23rd, 2019 at 05:51 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  2. #67
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    At this point I don't really care what people think about Tua or Hurts (I wish people had been right about Tua being invincible), but I would think they'd know better than to think Saban just forgot how to be a good football coach on his way to winning another national championship.
    It is possible to see Saban as the greatest coach of all time and also see him as a human being who makes mistakes. They are not mutually exclusive.

  3. #68
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU?

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    It is possible to see Saban as the greatest coach of all time and also see him as a human being who makes mistakes. They are not mutually exclusive.
    It isn't just a question of fallibility though, at least not when someone asserts that the choice was made for non-football reasons. The idea that Saban basically played favorites and there was nothing else to it is the antithesis of the type of coach Saban has been all along. That is what I disagree with strongly.

    You can say the guy with the passer rating of 199 last season who struggled in his biggest games in 2018 deserved to start the previous year over the guy with the 196 rating last season who struggled in his biggest games in 2017. Everyone has a right to their opinion. But to make it out to be such a forgone conclusion that only bias in favor of one could have lead to the choice is insulting not just to Saban but to the other quarterback as well.

    I'd have thought that the ending to last year would have made it abundantly clear that not only are both quarterbacks capable, but both are fallible as well. The choice (a proven Hurts over an unproven Tua) was always going to be a hard one.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; July 23rd, 2019 at 06:43 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  4. #69
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU?

    We will have to agree to disagree. I can cite examples that prove my point, and many others here have noticed them as well, but it doesn't matter. That happened 2 seasons ago. Time to move on

  5. #70
    BamaNation All-SEC The Ols's Avatar
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    Re: Just coach speak or is there a real chance Hurts may not be the starter at OU?

    At least you got a Clemson voice to agree with you??? on TideFans.com
    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I guess there's no way to avoid rehashing things somewhat, unless I just don't respond so here goes.

    I'll start with this. I believe if you just swapped out Daboll and the Locksley/Enos combination for 2017 and 2018 respectively, and kept the same starters throughout, Alabama probably wins two championships. I'll break that down as a way to explain the complexities of the situation.

    In 2017, Daboll simply was a bad fit for Hurts. That was one reason for the "revolt". He wasn't capable of drawing up plays for Hurts, he had to have someone else do it, and he was never the right guy for Hurts. He was, willfully or not undercutting Hurts. The fact that Hurts performed noticeably better the following season, under the guy who had to kind of try to make Daboll's offense work for Hurts mind you, is proof enough of that. If it was Locksley, focused on his job, as he would have been in 2017 drawing up the offense for Hurts (with Enos providing support in his development) there's no question in my mind we'd have seen better performance from Hurts. The proof lies in what we saw last season.

    However, and I said this at the time actually, Daboll was the better fit for Tua! We saw some proof of that when Tua faced tougher offenses. Daboll had a more pro-style offense with more expertise in going against top tier (NFL) defenses. I don't think Daboll would have struggled as much against Clemson, especially considering he likely wouldn't have lost focus as well.

    We can't avoid the fact that Tua's QBR against Georgia was 29.2 and 58.8 against Clemson. In his much lamented performance against Auburn, Hurts had a QBR of 78.6 and against Georgia in 2017 he was 49.2. So, when both were bad they were bad in similar fashion. Not only did Hurts struggle mightily against Georgia (the first time, second time under Locksley he was amazing), but Tua struggled mightily against Clemson. On the flip side, Tua was 90.4 against Georgia in 2017 and Hurts was 99.4 against Georgia 2018!

    What we can take away from that, is that under similar circumstances we saw similar performances! It's just that a lot of the trouble was with the offensive coordinators. Yes, Tua still is a better passer, but as you can see his on field performance wasn't always better and in the biggest games the differences shrunk considerably.

    That gets into the choice of who to start. I don't care who the receivers wanted, that's irrelevant. Saban's job is to win championships. If you could watch Tua in the Clemson game and not realize deficiencies in his game, you're not paying any attention. He didn't perform better than a true freshman Hurts against Clemson in 2016. In fact, he performed worse (Hurts had a 60.5 QBR and put his team in the lead late) The notion that a younger, less experienced Tua than the one we saw struggle considerably against Clemson was demonstrably better than Hurts is not supported by anything substantive. This isn't pro potential, this isn't abilities to make throws in practice, we're talking about winning games.

    Saban chose Hurts because he was the guy to get Alabama to the championship game. There's simply no guarantee that a true freshman Tua could have done that. Tua also offered Alabama more chances to lose, because he took risks Hurts never took.

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