Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt - Page 6
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  1. #66
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    I agree regarding vocational schools.

    And I was aware of student loans being non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. Same with income tax liability. There may be some others I’m not aware of.

    But nobody’s advocating that tax liability be forgiven, so I didn’t see non-dischargability as relevant to the question of whether student loans should be forgiven.

    It does bring up an interesting question, though. Usually, forgiveness of debt constitutes taxable income in the amount of the forgiveness. Is Warren also advocating not only that the student debt be erased, but the resulting income be non-taxable as well?
    It is not correct that personal or corporate income tax liability cannot be discharged. If you haven't paid anything in 3 years, it is dischargeable. You're probably thinking of employment taxes, which are a trust fund and are not dischargeable. I'm pretty sure her bill forgives the income tax liability also, or it wouldn't really help that much...
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  2. #67
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what is behind this. Reduced state allocations to public universities is part. There are more non-teachers than teachers at American colleges and universities. I went to a conference at James Madison University last year and ate in the dining facility. It was like a resort. I ate in Paty Hall while at Alabama, and it fed you, but it was not luxurious. JMU's dinig hall was completely over the top. They have to be, though, because if they of
    Darn young people!fered Paty Hall, applicants would go elsewhere.

    Agreed. I spoke with a master welder last year. His company cannot find young people who will show up at the right place, at the right time, with the right clothes on, and sober. And they are offering pretty good money.

    Those darn young people!
    I've only been on JMU's campus briefly, but it was pretty opulent...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  3. #68
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    Regarding reduction or forgiveness of interest, so long as the US Government is the lender, I'm kind of ambivalent about it. It just doesn't help all that much. If I have $50K in student debt, and am paying at 5% or 7% -- let's call it 6% for purposes of this example -- over 120 easy monthly payments, that's $555 a month. If we cut the interest rate in half, the payment is reduced only to $483 -- almost 90% of the originally-contracted amount. Even if we reduce the interest rate to 0%, the payment is still $417, or about 75% of the original contract.
    Yeah, I don't agree with this at all.

    I made minimum payments on my student loans ($175k) while I was a resident in a high cost of living area. That amounted to about $46k over 4 years of residency. Of that, $44k had gone to interest, and only $2k had been paid on the principle. At 7%, I accrue about $1,000 in interest every month, which periodically capitalizes. Were my loan interest-free, I'd have been more than a quarter of the way towards repaying my debt. Instead, I was actually further in the hole (due to interest capitalization), despite having made monthly payments for years.

  4. #69
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Yeah, I don't agree with this at all.

    I made minimum payments on my student loans ($175k) while I was a resident in a high cost of living area. That amounted to about $46k over 4 years of residency. Of that, $44k had gone to interest, and only $2k had been paid on the principle. At 7%, I accrue about $1,000 in interest every month, which periodically capitalizes. Were my loan interest-free, I'd have been more than a quarter of the way towards repaying my debt. Instead, I was actually further in the hole (due to interest capitalization), despite having made monthly payments for years.
    If you're paying the interest, which it sounds like you are, what is there to capitalize? In other words, how do you get further in the hole?

    Does the loan accrue at a number higher than 7%, even though the payment is based on a 7% rate?
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  5. #70
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    If you're paying the interest, which it sounds like you are, what is there to capitalize? In other words, how do you get further in the hole?

    Does the loan accrue at a number higher than 7%, even though the payment is based on a 7% rate?
    I'll let him speak, but it sounds like the interest is compounding...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  6. #71
    BamaNation Hall of Fame seebell's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Maybe it's the equivalent of making the minimum payment on a credit card?

  7. #72
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    If you're paying the interest, which it sounds like you are, what is there to capitalize? In other words, how do you get further in the hole?

    Does the loan accrue at a number higher than 7%, even though the payment is based on a 7% rate?
    While I was a resident, $1000/month was about 1/3 of my takehome pay (and let's not talk about SF rent), so that was not being paid off every month. Most months, but not every month. It compounds periodically (there's an overly complex set of conditions that cause this to occur), which of course increases the principle, at which point you're paying interest on interest. That happened several times.

    My point is that interest can be very punishing, especially given the reality that new graduates typically make the minimum salary their field commands. It can be pretty demoralizing to pay almost $50k to your student loans and see the principle actually increase. And I do realize that residency is a somewhat unusual apprenticeship situation where one makes considerably less than the median for your field before realizing your true earning potential. But I'd wager my experience is hardly unique.

    And for the record, I'm not asking for my loans to be forgiven. Obviously, it would be fantastic for me personally, but it would not be good policy because I can handle it and therefore should not be the target of any profound debt relief. Others can't (as I couldn't while I was a resident), and wagging a finger at them isn't going to help the economy when millions of Millennials stop buying cars or building houses.

  8. #73
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    I've only been on JMU's campus briefly, but it was pretty opulent...
    Probably 80%+ of the students are from Northern Virginia/DC suburbs. They expect that treatment and will go elsewhere if they don't get it.

    Folks over in Charlottesville say JMU stand for "Just Missed UVA."

  9. #74
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Probably 80%+ of the students are from Northern Virginia/DC suburbs. They expect that treatment and will go elsewhere if they don't get it.

    Folks over in Charlottesville say JMU stand for "Just Missed UVA."
    I have 2 cousins who went there and I live in the DMV. This is 100% accurate

  10. #75
    BamaNation Hall of Fame deliveryman35's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    While we’re at it, let’s just go ahead and pay everyone’s mortgage off and give everyone the latest iPhone. SMH
    "Football is a hard game. These spread coaches forget that. Until good defenses remind them." Gene Stallings

  11. #76
    BamaNation Hall of Fame jthomas666's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    For that matter, there's not much demand for grads with degrees in either philosophy or English. Should those be non-funded dreams also. Society would be poorer without them...
    Interestingly, starting in the mid 90s, colleges started ramping up admissions to English grad programs just so that they'd have more cheap instructors.

    Earle does raise a good point--we need people learning liberal arts as well.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  12. #77
    BamaNation Hall of Fame deliveryman35's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Advanced education beyond high school is a voluntary endeavor. You choose that, it is not forcibly thrust on you. There is absolutely no reason this expense should be paid by anyone else other than the person that chooses to go into it and the notion that this should be paid for by the taxpayers is outrageous. One political party knows that a bailout for this will never become law but nonetheless use it to pander for votes from the millennials. They have no shame.
    Last edited by deliveryman35; July 26th, 2019 at 10:01 PM.
    "Football is a hard game. These spread coaches forget that. Until good defenses remind them." Gene Stallings

  13. #78
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by deliveryman35 View Post
    While we’re at it, let’s just go ahead and pay everyone’s mortgage off and give everyone the latest iPhone. SMH
    Didn't we kinda do that in the last decade or so to some degree? No blue font.
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