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  1. #92
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Go Bama's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    One of the guys in my praise band is a 37 year old electrician with a high school education and he’s debt free. He has a wife, a daughter, a nice home With a shop on two acres, a nice truck, a Camry for his wife, and a vasectomy. All he has to pay for is retirement.

  2. #93
    BamaNation Hall of Fame jthomas666's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Yeah. The English, I understand. The biology, I absolutely don't...
    There's a lot of brute memorization in undergrad biology...
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  3. #94
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas666 View Post
    There's a lot of brute memorization in undergrad biology...
    You have to have a good memory for just about any field. In terms of memorization, I think it would be more important in the medical fields. The most important factor is the ability to think through complicated situations in a logical fashion. That ability is not as common as you might think. I was a member of the last class at UA which didn't have to take the bar exam. Instead, the winnowing was don in law school. Two thirds of my entering class flunked out...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  4. #95
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaNation View Post
    Here's my perspective as a Ph.D-holding college professor in a large public university system...

    Why are students going to mediocre schools paying ridiculous tuition/room/board and getting <$40k / year jobs? THIS is the major problem. Unneeded degrees in esoteric stupid subjects that pay nothing and are less than worthless OR high-cost tuition at less than desirable colleges (or even worse, a combo of both).

    Couple of ways to mitigate this:

    1) Go to a low-cost undergrad: My school's flat-rate tuition is $2000 for 15+ hours. Do that 9X (about what it would take to graduate 4.5 years) and your out of pocket expense is about $20k for tuition. In this market I could make $20K over 4.5 years sitting on my couch and eating Doritos all day.

    and/or

    2) Actually achieve something in HS so your school is paid for.

    The fact that people WHO WERE NOT FORCED TO TAKE OUT A LOAN OTHER THAN BY THEIR OWN DOING want their loan paid back by me is so offensive to my senses that I'm going to stop typing now.
    Good post.

    Government policymakers are terrible with the concept of incentives. They seem to completely ignore that pillar of sound economics, and thus produce backwards results. Handing out loans (directly or indirectly) encourages people to pursue careers that aren't feasible. Or, just as often it seems, to pursue degrees that have no follow-on careers at all.

    Now, if someone wants to major in underwater basket weaving, more power to him. I just don't want to pay for it in any shape or form.

    The argument that government intervention is needed to allow poor kids to go to college is dubious. If you're smart you can get scholarships. If you are a minority there's all sorts of free money available. Beyond that, start at a community college where it is super-cheap and/or work your way through school. You should go to college if you have the intelligence and drive to do so, not because you receive misguided incentives from the government to do so. We can see the damage the government plan has caused in massive debt and years of lost productivity. (And is the federal government's involvement here even justified constitutionally? Is this an enumerated power?)

    I haven't followed the political platforms that closely yet. I'm still looking for a presidential candidate to advocate for turning off the spigot of stupidity that is federal involvement in student loans? Which candidate(s) have set aside the urge to pander and actually show some applied intelligence on this subject? TIA.
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  5. #96
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaFlum View Post
    My wife ran into a former student who is now a lawyer. He said their law firm looks for graduates with degrees in biology and English. We both thought was an unusual combination.


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    When I was in law school and shortly thereafter I met a few lawyers with biology (and other science) backgrounds. They were doing intellectual property work.
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  6. #97
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    When I was in law school and shortly thereafter I met a few lawyers with biology (and other science) backgrounds. They were doing intellectual property work.
    Yep, IP law, particularly patent, is the huge exception to the usual backgrounds. Around here, for obvious reasons, there are a lot with engineering backgrounds...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  7. #98
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    I have to imagine someone with a hard skill computing software/hardware background could be a very valuable legal resource since the field is wholly reliant on the existence of intellectual property rights.


    I considered the law school path at one time but just decided to stay technical.
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  8. #99
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    You have to have a good memory for just about any field. In terms of memorization, I think it would be more important in the medical fields. The most important factor is the ability to think through complicated situations in a logical fashion. That ability is not as common as you might think. I was a member of the last class at UA which didn't have to take the bar exam. Instead, the winnowing was don in law school. Two thirds of my entering class flunked out...
    It is, but intuition is underappreciated yet at times over-praised. If the intuition is usually good and open to new information it is one of the best assets to have. If the intuition is more a prejudged closed-minded view it can be detrimental to good medicine. Just a random thought.
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  9. #100
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    I have to imagine someone with a hard skill computing software/hardware background could be a very valuable legal resource since the field is wholly reliant on the existence of intellectual property rights.


    I considered the law school path at one time but just decided to stay technical.
    There are a lot of the sort around here, in fact. However, outside the IP field, attorneys in general and tax attorneys in particular tend to be early adopters and ahead of the general public so far as computer literacy is concerned...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  10. #101
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Bama View Post
    One of the guys in my praise band is a 37 year old electrician with a high school education and he’s debt free. He has a wife, a daughter, a nice home With a shop on two acres, a nice truck, a Camry for his wife, and a vasectomy. All he has to pay for is retirement.
    I know he might not think of himself as such (many people like him don't), but he's an example to everyone, no matter their level of education, on how to provide for his family and himself.

    Works hard, earns every dollar, doesn't squander it, pays cash for everything, and will probably retire wealthier than he could ever have imagined back in high school.

    Interesting thing about human nature. These guys are doing it right, but don't talk much about what they do, how they do it, or the results (at a young age!) that their efforts and methods produce. It's the ones who live way beyond their means, pile up McMansions and toys, all financed with the longest term debt they can find, who brag at parties and on social media about how great their lives are.

    Meanwhile, your buddy, if he goes to parties or has Facebook at all, just keeps his mouth shut, his head down, and actually builds the life the braggarts want others to think they have.

    Kudos to him. I wish he'd teach a class.
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  11. #102
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Yep, IP law, particularly patent, is the huge exception to the usual backgrounds. Around here, for obvious reasons, there are a lot with engineering backgrounds...
    I know a young lawyer who was the most brilliant, shyest, guy you could imagine in high school. Aced everything at the Jefferson County International Baccalaureate School, which is no mean feat. Grade inflation hasn't hit that place. Good kid to talk to, but painfully shy until you could pull him out of his shell. Accepted to MIT, but his mom wanted him to go to UA to get some social skills (a bit of irony there...social skills in the Engineering School, but I digress), then to MIT or similar for grad school.

    Mom made the right call. The shy kid came out of his shell, and grew into the kind of guy where, if your daughter brought him home and said, "Dad, this is the one," you'd fall to your knees and cross yourself even if you aren't Catholic.

    Aced the Electrical Engineering program at UA, then diverged from engineering. Went to UA Law School instead, and did really well there, concentrating in Intellectual Property Law. Is now about to be a partner in a firm specializing in that practice in DC. Which, because of its proximity to the Patent Office, you know is the hub for all things patent-related.

    Huge success story for one of the good guys.
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  12. #103
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Go Bama's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    I know he might not think of himself as such (many people like him don't), but he's an example to everyone, no matter their level of education, on how to provide for his family and himself.

    Works hard, earns every dollar, doesn't squander it, pays cash for everything, and will probably retire wealthier than he could ever have imagined back in high school.

    Interesting thing about human nature. These guys are doing it right, but don't talk much about what they do, how they do it, or the results (at a young age!) that their efforts and methods produce. It's the ones who live way beyond their means, pile up McMansions and toys, all financed with the longest term debt they can find, who brag at parties and on social media about how great their lives are.

    Meanwhile, your buddy, if he goes to parties or has Facebook at all, just keeps his mouth shut, his head down, and actually builds the life the braggarts want others to think they have.

    Kudos to him. I wish he'd teach a class.
    You have absolutely nailed him. He’s as country as a haystack and one of the nicest young men I’ve ever met. And he hates DJT.

  13. #104
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    I have to imagine someone with a hard skill computing software/hardware background could be a very valuable legal resource since the field is wholly reliant on the existence of intellectual property rights.


    I considered the law school path at one time but just decided to stay technical.
    friend of mine from highschool went this path, EE Degree from Ga Tech then out to Stanford law and been in IP/Patent law ever since. Haven't talked to him in forever but last I heard he was making a killing and still living in the Palo Alto area
    "There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist." - Terry Pratchett

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