Sen Elizabeth Warren introduces bill to eliminate college loan debt

4Q Basket Case

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There are a lot of students that cannot do that type of math but are still hard working, well meaning kids. However, I have seen multiple posts condemning kids for looking degrees that only require core math classes like history and English. I wonder what degree is likely to provide the income to repay a degree for hard workers that are just not mathematically inclined.
Look at what the employment market demands, as evidenced by what it pays. That will tell you. Working hard and being well-meaning will make you a great person, parent, colleague, and example of how to live a life. Taken in a vacuum, they are not enough to make the big dollars. You have to deliver value to the employer.

And yes, I know what it is to deliver that message to someone who worked hard and was well meaning, but lacked the requisite talent.

Take it out of employment and translate it to football.

A kid may be the hardest worker on the team. He may know the offense (or defense) as well as the coaches. He may be the best teammate, supporting anybody and everybody to the end of his being. But if he's 5-8, 160 pounds, runs a 5.0 40, and benches his 160-pound weight 10 times, he's not going to get an offer from Alabama. Or any other P-5 school. And nobody would bat an eye. God bless him, he just isn't good enough.

But put it in the context of an academic program, and there's all sorts of, "but what if...."s.

It's a hard truth....like the stock market, the employment market is not in the business of giving everybody a trophy. It gives trophies to those who generate more value than the next best alternative.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I just checked how much it cost the federal government to finance debt already incurred. The NYT says "the cost of interest is on track to hit $390 billion next year." By 2028, it is going to hit $914 billion/year just in interest on already incurred debt.

Now if we had avoided spending $20 trillion more than the federal government collected in the past and kept all other federal expenditures the same, we could actually afford to assume $390 billion of student loan debt this year. And $390 billion in student loan next year, and so on until all student loan debt has been eliminated. Or we could spend $390 billion per year on infrastructure repairs or child care for working women or whatever.

Instead we spent above federal incomes in the past to the tune of $20 trillion. And having made that bed, we have to sleep in it.
The graphs are interesting, showing when the bulk of the deficits occurred...
 

bamamc1

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Same here. I will never understand why I was refused a pell grant, but growing up how I did made me who I am. I have co-workers that refer to me as "frugal". I am not really. I just have an appreciation for how things can go bad. When I was really young, both parents worked and we did pretty well. When I was 10, my dad got laid off, my mom lost her job as well, I was a sickly kid (asthma). We ended up having to move into a trailer (10 years). We had to borrow the money just to get that much. When I was very young, I made it my goal in life to not end up like that. I made sure I got an education. I worked harder than anyone. I took out student loans, I worked 2 jobs and went to school full time. It nearly killed me. If I had it to do over again, I would do the exact same thing.
I try to convey to my daughter to ready for the hard times because they may come at any time. I lost my job of 17 years because I found out the company wanted to get “younger”. I’ve had to start over in sales so we’ll see how that goes. Fortunately, I had enough $ in the bank to last us over a year. That was supposed to be college $ for my daughter. My parents taught my brother and me how to be tough. I thank God for that.
 

bamamc1

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There's nothing wrong with being born dirt poor. We don't choose our birth circumstances.

You did what a lot don't do...you learned. I'm sorry your ex isn't shouldering the responsibilities of parenthood. But I guarantee your daughter is learning lifelong lessons from you. She'll pass them on to her children, and your influence will be felt even after anyone reading this is in the dirt.

Congrats on making lemonade when life dealt you lemons.
I can’t thank you enough for this post.
 

rgw

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I just checked how much it cost the federal government to finance debt already incurred. The NYT says "the cost of interest is on track to hit $390 billion next year." By 2028, it is going to hit $914 billion/year just in interest on already incurred debt.

Now if we had avoided spending $20 trillion more than the federal government collected in the past and kept all other federal expenditures the same, we could actually afford to assume $390 billion of student loan debt this year. And $390 billion in student loan next year, and so on until all student loan debt has been eliminated. Or we could spend $390 billion per year on infrastructure repairs or child care for working women or whatever.

Instead we spent above federal incomes in the past to the tune of $20 trillion. And having made that bed, we have to sleep in it.
don't worry our nukes are the debt cancelation plan
 

Tidewater

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don't worry our nukes are the debt cancelation plan
I had a Canadian colleague told me the United States are just going to repudiate that debt. If you are holding a $10,000 T-bill, the federal government is going to declare it worthless and call you a sucker. He may be right.
 

4Q Basket Case

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I can’t thank you enough for this post.
I appreciate the thought, but you're the one who deserves the thanks.

Take your daughter out, do whatever you guys enjoy, listen to the country song, "She Thinks We're Just Fishing," and let her know you love her.
 

Bodhisattva

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But....but....but...diversity! Gender equity!

Whatever happened to equality of outcomes?

I smell white male privilege!


Thank goodness Bodhi is raising Lily to be confident and accountable, and to hold others to the level of accountability to which she holds herself.

Well done, Bodhi!
Lol and I appreciate the kind words. My wife is Asian and my daughter is half-Asian, and Asians do far better than whites. Yet, I never hear about Asian privilege. I am familiar, however, with the privilege that comes with developing skills that are in demand in the marketplace. Since my wife and I both started out extremely poor, I would say our success is due to hard work and merit and not skin color.
 
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jthomas666

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I try to convey to my daughter to ready for the hard times because they may come at any time. I lost my job of 17 years because I found out the company wanted to get “younger”. I’ve had to start over in sales so we’ll see how that goes. Fortunately, I had enough $ in the bank to last us over a year. That was supposed to be college $ for my daughter. My parents taught my brother and me how to be tough. I thank God for that.
I've been there myself. Fortunately, my wife and I did a Financial Peace course about 10 years ago, and that cured us of a lot of our bad habits.

Best of luck moving ahead.
 

rgw

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If our tax system was correct, unless you are in the top 1% or so then you won't be burdened much by this at all. So long as we vote centrists and right wingers into power our progressive taxes will continue to get more regressive over time.
 

TIDE-HSV

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If our tax system was correct, unless you are in the top 1% or so then you won't be burdened much by this at all. So long as we vote centrists and right wingers into power our progressive taxes will continue to get more regressive over time.
What do you think will happen if Trump maintains power? Serious matter; serious question...
 

uafanataum

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If our tax system was correct, unless you are in the top 1% or so then you won't be burdened much by this at all. So long as we vote centrists and right wingers into power our progressive taxes will continue to get more regressive over time.
Well then you are going to be very disappointed whether trump wins or loses because if he wins it will be another 4 years of a right winger and if he loses it will be to a centrist.
 

rgw

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What do you think will happen if Trump maintains power? Serious matter; serious question...
Do I think it would be worse with more GOP? Sure. Democrats’ main body seems uninterested in counteracting it going by the last 30 years.
 

Tidewater

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A better place for this story.
I Killed My Teenager’s Fancy College Dreams. You Should, Too.

Kid wanted to go to art school because irresponsible adults at her school were pushing that idea on her.
“If you want to be an artist and you graduate with a ton of student loan debt, you can’t afford to be an artist, anymore,” I told her, explaining that you become a creatively stymied wage slave instead."

"So my husband and I decided to go ahead and become the villains in a John Hughes movie. One day when Ella was a sophomore, we laid out our financial situation. We told her we’d saved about $40,000 in a 529 to pay for her college. Between that, a part-time job, and some serious scrimping (“You like ramen, right?”), we could probably afford to send her to an in-state university, or maybe a really cut-rate private college with two years of community college first. Art school in New York? Not going to happen."
I wish more parents would do this.

"According to a Sallie Mae survey, 70 percent of parents say that, even though they’re worried about paying for their kids’ college, they’re not limiting their children’s college choices based on price. One friend recently told me that her son has his heart set on a pricey out-of-state engineering program, despite the fact that a fantastic engineering program exists at the public university in our town. 'It’s a reach school, but if he gets in he’ll probably go there—and I guess deal with a lot of student loan debt afterward,' she said with a laugh."
 

Padreruf

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A better place for this story.
I Killed My Teenager’s Fancy College Dreams. You Should, Too.

Kid wanted to go to art school because irresponsible adults at her school were pushing that idea on her.
“If you want to be an artist and you graduate with a ton of student loan debt, you can’t afford to be an artist, anymore,” I told her, explaining that you become a creatively stymied wage slave instead."

"So my husband and I decided to go ahead and become the villains in a John Hughes movie. One day when Ella was a sophomore, we laid out our financial situation. We told her we’d saved about $40,000 in a 529 to pay for her college. Between that, a part-time job, and some serious scrimping (“You like ramen, right?”), we could probably afford to send her to an in-state university, or maybe a really cut-rate private college with two years of community college first. Art school in New York? Not going to happen."
I wish more parents would do this.

"According to a Sallie Mae survey, 70 percent of parents say that, even though they’re worried about paying for their kids’ college, they’re not limiting their children’s college choices based on price. One friend recently told me that her son has his heart set on a pricey out-of-state engineering program, despite the fact that a fantastic engineering program exists at the public university in our town. 'It’s a reach school, but if he gets in he’ll probably go there—and I guess deal with a lot of student loan debt afterward,' she said with a laugh."
In reality students are "buying" a degree...they have to ask if that degree is worth what it is costing them. Students are often much better off going to a community college, then a public university, and then to a good or even top notch graduate school. The latter is much more important than the under-graduate degree. You are right about the "stymied wage slave..." I saw it often in the ministry...could tell you horror stories of students who will never, ever get out of student debt until retirement.
 

Tidewater

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In reality students are "buying" a degree...they have to ask if that degree is worth what it is costing them. Students are often much better off going to a community college, then a public university, and then to a good or even top notch graduate school. The latter is much more important than the under-graduate degree. You are right about the "stymied wage slave..." I saw it often in the ministry...could tell you horror stories of students who will never, ever get out of student debt until retirement.
In Virginia, they have a program which allows students to go to community college for two years and, if they get a GPA high enough, they get automatic admission into the state universities. 3.6 will get you into UVA, which is the most prestigious public school in the state. 3.4 will get you into Va Tech.
If I was 18 today, that is the route I would go.
 

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