Alabama's HC choices between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban - who else were considered?

saturdaysarebet · Jul 27, 2019

I know the list of head coaches post Bear Bryant and pre-Nick Saban, but what I was trying to recall was were their other highly thought of candidates that weren't selected? As we know, timing is everything and what a difference the right or wrong coach can make on a program.

From Bear we went to Ray Perkins, Alabama alum, played for Bear and was head coach of the NY Giants. Was anyone else considered/mentioned for the job? Perkins in his last year with the Giants had a 4-5 record in 1982.

From there we got Bill Curry, who I always liked personally, another Alabama alum that played for Bear Bryant, but was only 5-5-1 at Georgia Tech in his final year there before getting the Alabama job. Like Perkins, not a great coaching record in his last year before being picked to coach the Crimson Tide. Who else was considered for the job?

Gene Stallings, assistant under Bear Bryant, was coaching the NFL Cardinals and was 5-6 in his last season with the Cardinals before coming back to Alabama. Stallings, thankfully, won a national championship.

Mike DuBose, played at and was an assistant coach at Alabama. Although it's rare for a first-time head coach to do well and not impossible, to me Alabama is not someplace for someone to get their first-time head coaching experience.

Dennis Franchione - he had a 10-1 record in his final season at TCU before being chosen as Alabama's head coach. Any other thought of candidates?

Mike Price - had two consecutive 10-win seasons at Washington State before being chosen as Alabama's head coach and blowing the opportunity of a lifetime.

Mike Shula - former Alabama QB, NFL assistant coaching experience, no college coaching or head coaching experience whatsoever. Was he just a safe pick, a former player and sort of the anti-Mike Price behavior for a coach?

Which other individuals were considered along the way that weren't selected between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban? Refresh my memory please. It's hell to get old and forgetful.

PA Tide Fan · Jul 27, 2019

After Bryant retired there were several names mentioned. Howard Schnellenberger, Bobby Bowden, Danny Ford, and Jackie Sherrill. I don't know if these were just people the media thought might succeed Bryant or if there were discussions with them. After Perkins resigned I know Alabama did contact Bobby Bowden to set up an interview. Bowden really wanted the job and the story goes he came to Tuscaloosa thinking Alabama was ready to name him Head Coach but was upset when he found out it was only for an interview. The report was that the interview didn't go well so they chose Bill Curry, who was Perkins choice.

NationalTitles18 · Jul 27, 2019

saturdaysarebet said:
I know the list of head coaches post Bear Bryant and pre-Nick Saban, but what I was trying to recall was were their other highly thought of candidates that weren't selected? As we know, timing is everything and what a difference the right or wrong coach can make on a program.

From Bear we went to Ray Perkins, Alabama alum, played for Bear and was head coach of the NY Giants. Was anyone else considered/mentioned for the job? Perkins in his last year with the Giants had a 4-5 record in 1982.

From there we got Bill Curry, who I always liked personally, another Alabama alum that played for Bear Bryant, but was only 5-5-1 at Georgia Tech in his final year there before getting the Alabama job. Like Perkins, not a great coaching record in his last year before being picked to coach the Crimson Tide. Who else was considered for the job?

Gene Stallings, assistant under Bear Bryant, was coaching the NFL Cardinals and was 5-6 in his last season with the Cardinals before coming back to Alabama. Stallings, thankfully, won a national championship.

Mike DuBose, played at and was an assistant coach at Alabama. Although it's rare for a first-time head coach to do well and not impossible, to me Alabama is not someplace for someone to get their first-time head coaching experience.

Dennis Franchione - he had a 10-1 record in his final season at TCU before being chosen as Alabama's head coach. Any other thought of candidates?

Mike Price - had two consecutive 10-win seasons at Washington State before being chosen as Alabama's head coach and blowing the opportunity of a lifetime.

Mike Shula - former Alabama QB, NFL assistant coaching experience, no college coaching or head coaching experience whatsoever. Was he just a safe pick, a former player and sort of the anti-Mike Price behavior for a coach?

Which other individuals were considered along the way that weren't selected between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban? Refresh my memory please. It's hell to get old and forgetful.

First, I just have to get it out of the way:

Bill Curry is not an Alabama graduate and never played for Coach Bryant. I can tell you that had they not completely botched the interview process Daddy Bowden would likely have been coach instead of Curry.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 27, 2019

saturdaysarebet said:
I know the list of head coaches post Bear Bryant and pre-Nick Saban, but what I was trying to recall was were their other highly thought of candidates that weren't selected? As we know, timing is everything and what a difference the right or wrong coach can make on a program.

From Bear we went to Ray Perkins, Alabama alum, played for Bear and was head coach of the NY Giants. Was anyone else considered/mentioned for the job? Perkins in his last year with the Giants had a 4-5 record in 1982.

From there we got Bill Curry, who I always liked personally, another Alabama alum that played for Bear Bryant, but was only 5-5-1 at Georgia Tech in his final year there before getting the Alabama job. Like Perkins, not a great coaching record in his last year before being picked to coach the Crimson Tide. Who else was considered for the job?

Gene Stallings, assistant under Bear Bryant, was coaching the NFL Cardinals and was 5-6 in his last season with the Cardinals before coming back to Alabama. Stallings, thankfully, won a national championship.

Mike DuBose, played at and was an assistant coach at Alabama. Although it's rare for a first-time head coach to do well and not impossible, to me Alabama is not someplace for someone to get their first-time head coaching experience.

Dennis Franchione - he had a 10-1 record in his final season at TCU before being chosen as Alabama's head coach. Any other thought of candidates?

Mike Price - had two consecutive 10-win seasons at Washington State before being chosen as Alabama's head coach and blowing the opportunity of a lifetime.

Mike Shula - former Alabama QB, NFL assistant coaching experience, no college coaching or head coaching experience whatsoever. Was he just a safe pick, a former player and sort of the anti-Mike Price behavior for a coach?

Which other individuals were considered along the way that weren't selected between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban? Refresh my memory please. It's hell to get old and forgetful.

Ray Perkins was pretty much considered to be Bryant's personal choice.

Bobby Bowden was supposed to get the job when we hired Bill Curry. He showed up expecting to be announced coach - and they interviewed him, which he didn't want to do. The other leading candidates that I find listed (or can recall) were Danny Ford (Clemson), Jackie Sherrill (ATM), Jim Fuller, and Steve Sloan.

When Curry left, the big names were Stallings, Schnellenberger, Ford, Bowden, and FSU DC Mickey Andrews (it was when FSU got wind that we wanted him that they offered him the "lifetime contract"

When Dubious left, the names besides Franchione were Butch Davis (who allegedly had said he would), Frank Beamer, Tommy Bowden, and 1-2 others.

When Franchione left, there was no limit to the names that came up. Mike Riley, Walt Hazzard, Tom Coughlin, Mike Price, Les Miles, Carl Torbush, and even Bill Parcells.

Of course, I personally think we missed out when we got Saban over the high quality nonsense of Paul Johnson (aka D A Baxter)

saturdaysarebet · Jul 27, 2019

NationalTitles17 said:
First, I just have to get it out of the way:

Bill Curry is not an Alabama graduate and never played for Coach Bryant. I can tell you that had they not completely botched the interview process Daddy Bowden would likely have been coach instead of Curry.

Thank you for setting me straight NT17. Not sure why I thought he did. I looked it up and he went to Georgia Tech.

jthomas666 · Jul 27, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
When Dubious left, the names besides Franchione were Butch Davis (who allegedly had said he would), Frank Beamer, Tommy Bowden, and 1-2 others.

Word had gotten out that Davis changed his mind, and at that point Beamer withdrew from consideration because he didn't want to be "the second choice."

When Franchione left, there was no limit to the names that came up. Mike Riley, Walt Hazzard, Tom Coughlin, Mike Price, Les Miles, Carl Torbush, and even Bill Parcells.

Riley pulled a Rich Rod on us. Accepted the job, and Coach Moore called all the players into the AD building to tell them. While the players were streaming in, Riley got cold feet--supposedly his wife didn't want t leave LA.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 27, 2019

jthomas666 said:
Word had gotten out that Davis changed his mind, and at that point Beamer withdrew from consideration because he didn't want to be the second choice."

Rile pulled a Rich Rod on us. Accepted the job, and Coach Moore called all the players into the AD building to tell them. While the players were streaming in, Riley got cold feet--supposedly his wife didn't want t leave LA.

Wow, I had not heard the Riley thing before today. Incredible.

I believe the version I heard on Butch Davis is there was a verbal agreement and then Spurrier and Fulmer basically said we were about to get blown up by the NCAA - and having just rebuilt Miami, he wasn't going to start over that low. I think Beamer was probably never in the cards in the first place - he had just built up Va Tech and had played there. That's a very hard feeling to overcome.

I still recall (living in MS at the time) that Jackie Sherrill, who had zero chance of getting it, calling a press conference to announce he wasn't leaving for that job he was never going to get in the first place. Even the MSU folks knew this was Jackie going overboard. Every single person I ever had a convo with who brought up Sherrill - even MSU fans - would never cease to say he was just flat out an arrogant snot.

When Sherrill's name was first in the mix for the MSU job to replace Rockey Felker, it was almost universally popular. In fact, the common sentiment in MS at the time was, "Well, we're gonna be on probation in 2-3 years, but we'll have good seasons until then."

Thx for the info on Riley. It was kinda weird to me how he had seemed (from my vantage point in San Antonio) the front-runner and then poof. Now it makes sense.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 27, 2019

NationalTitles17 said:
Bill Curry is not an Alabama graduate and never played for Coach Bryant. I can tell you that had they not completely botched the interview process Daddy Bowden would likely have been coach instead of Curry.

Curry never went to Alabama, never played for Bryant, never beat Auburn, and never had a damned clue how to coach a football team.

Pepper Rodgers, the guy he replaced at Tech, said it was bad enough getting fired but getting replaced by Curry was like watching your wife
run off with Don Knotts.

EnterBama · Jul 27, 2019

I don't know who all were being seriously considered to be Alabama's head coach at various times but I recall during a game in Shula's 10-3 year the commentators were discussing Alabama's improved play that year and the fact they'd had more 10 win seasons than any other team.

I believe it was Bill Curry who said Alabama could hire a sack of flour to coach and they could be a 10 win team on a regular basis. Alabama's long history of excellence and those Crimson jerseys would bring in enough talent.

Ole Man Dan · Jul 27, 2019

PA Tide Fan said:
After Bryant retired there were several names mentioned. Howard Schnellenberger, Bobby Bowden, Danny Ford, and Jackie Sherrill. I don't know if these were just people the media thought might succeed Bryant or if there were discussions with them. After Perkins resigned I know Alabama did contact Bobby Bowden to set up an interview. Bowden really wanted the job and the story goes he came to Tuscaloosa thinking Alabama was ready to name him Head Coach but was upset when he found out it was only for an interview. The report was that the interview didn't go well so they chose Bill Curry, who was Perkins choice.

Daddy Bowden bombed out in his interview for the
Alabama Head Coach job.
I don't know what was said or how it was said,
but he appears to have shot himself in the foot.
At the time I think the job was Bowden's to lose. (And he did)

B1GTide · Jul 28, 2019

Ole Man Dan said:
Daddy Bowden bombed out in his interview for the
Alabama Head Coach job.
I don't know what was said or how it was said,
but he appears to have shot himself in the foot.
At the time I think the job was Bowden's to lose. (And he did)

I read here - can't remember who posted it - that he was insulted that he had to interview for the position, which led to the poor outcome. If he thought that the job was his and was angry to learn that there were other candidates, I can see how he would bomb the interview.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 28, 2019

Ole Man Dan said:
Daddy Bowden bombed out in his interview for the
Alabama Head Coach job.
I don't know what was said or how it was said,
but he appears to have shot himself in the foot.
At the time I think the job was Bowden's to lose. (And he did)

Bowden thought he was coming to be introduced as coach. Bowden has told this story dozens of times for the newspaper articles of "what if."
He told the guys talking to him that he would take the Alabama job in a split second, but he was NOT going to interview for it because they already knew what he was about. He was told he was going to meet the President, opened the door, and there were 17 people sitting in the room looking back at a guy who had already told them he wasn't going to interview for the job.

By 1990, he had a solid FSU program going and basically used the leverage of "Alabama wants me" to get his lifetime contract.

He may have "bungled" the interview, but he was so ticked about having to do it that I seriously doubt he would have come here.

And besides......what group of people on what planet in 1987 picks Bill Curry over Bobby Bowden?

81usaf92 · Jul 28, 2019

When Price got canned there were a lot of names that were floating a round that were serious candidates that a lot of revisionists tend to dismiss in their campaign to say "Shula was the only one who wanted the job". Shula, Riley, and Croom were the last line of people that hadn't backed out that were being considered from what Ive been told. Coughlin I heard wanted the job, but backed out for some reason. I even heard from some people that Gene Stallings was willing to come back for 2-4 years just to ride out the sanctions.

2007 the two top candidates were Saban and Spurrier. Spurrier never thought Alabama could be saved, and if it could he didnt want to be the one to do it. The process of getting Saban was taking too long, and folks were starting to get impatient and Mal begged Spurrier several times to come. After he said no, Mal went and explored 3rd choice candidates like Rich Rod, Grobe, and Schiano. Thank God he struck gold by being patient and a bit of luck.

UAH · Jul 28, 2019

B1GTide said:
I read here - can't remember who posted it - that he was insulted that he had to interview for the position, which led to the poor outcome. If he thought that the job was his and was angry to learn that there were other candidates, I can see how he would bomb the interview.

I have read years ago that he was quoted that he could see that they were not interested in him for the job. It seems they were interested in image and Curry appeared more like Madison Avenue might picture as a football coach. Too bad he (Curry) never had the intensity or (judgement?) required to run a program with the expectations of Alabama.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 28, 2019

81usaf92 said:
When Price got canned there were a lot of names that were floating a round that were serious candidates that a lot of revisionists tend to dismiss in their campaign to say "Shula was the only one who wanted the job". Shula, Riley, and Croom were the last line of people that hadn't backed out that were being considered from what Ive been told. Coughlin I heard wanted the job, but backed out for some reason. I even heard from some people that Gene Stallings was willing to come back for 2-4 years just to ride out the sanctions.

2007 the two top candidates were Saban and Spurrier. Spurrier never thought Alabama could be saved, and if it could he didnt want to be the one to do it. The process of getting Saban was taking too long, and folks were starting to get impatient and Mal begged Spurrier several times to come. After he said no, Mal went and explored 3rd choice candidates like Rich Rod, Grobe, and Schiano. Thank God he struck gold by being patient and a bit of luck.

The Stallings story was actually reported by Stewart Mandel at the time (he used it to rip us for dismissing Price). He blasted Stallings as the guy who had gotten us into trouble in the first place. There were three names in the PUBLIC, I know what I've heard about feelers privately (including Coughlin and Les Miles), but the three names before the public were Shula, Croom, and Richard Williamson.

If I understand Earle's story correctly, Williamson went to his grave thinking someone had hosed him out of that job.

I thought Shula was the "right" choice among those three, mostly because I felt the sanctions were going to bite and that whoever took it was probably a sacrificial lamb in the long run. If we had hired Croom, and he had failed, we would have been on the receiving end of stories about how "Alabama would only hire a black coach after setting him up to fail." For Pete's sake, "The Sports Reporters" smashed us as if we were under some obligation to hire a guy simply because of his skin color......while bashing us for supposedly hiring someone based on his skin color.......we were supposed to, you know, follow Notre Dame's lead after they hired Willingham.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 28, 2019

UAH said:
I have read years ago that he was quoted that he could see that they were not interested in him for the job. It seems they were interested in image and Curry appeared more like Madison Avenue might picture as a football coach. Too bad he (Curry) never had the intensity or (judgement?) required to run a program with the expectations of Alabama.

I don't know about that. The tale at the time was that Joab Thomas wanted "Alabama to be seen as more than just a football factory," and Curry's time at Tech had emphasized academics first. A look at his graduation rate shows that justification was a colossal failure (2/3 of his players were on academic probation, and the graduation rate was something like maybe 39%).

It should also be noted that when Tech relaxed their extremely high admission standards in the late 80s, they won the 1990 national title. Lewis Grizzard, the Bulldog that he was, took the trouble to point out that Tech lowering the admissions let them get players they otherwise wouldn't, they won a title, and the school was suddenly flowing in money they'd never had previously.

I can see either way on Bill Curry, but the reality is that his 1989 season was a fluke. He got an SEC title because the QB he named a starter got injured, and the replacement was able to execute Homer Smith's complicated offensive schemes. Go look how many close games that he won in 1988 solely because of the talent Ray Perkins left him, and how lucky he got against Penn St in 1989 after making decision after decision that made zero sense (I'm doing a write-up on that season that I hope to complete before this year gets under way).

81usaf92 · Jul 28, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
The Stallings story was actually reported by Stewart Mandel at the time (he used it to rip us for dismissing Price). He blasted Stallings as the guy who had gotten us into trouble in the first place. There were three names in the PUBLIC, I know what I've heard about feelers privately (including Coughlin and Les Miles), but the three names before the public were Shula, Croom, and Richard Williamson.

If I understand Earle's story correctly, Williamson went to his grave thinking someone had hosed him out of that job.

I thought Shula was the "right" choice among those three, mostly because I felt the sanctions were going to bite and that whoever took it was probably a sacrificial lamb in the long run. If we had hired Croom, and he had failed, we would have been on the receiving end of stories about how "Alabama would only hire a black coach after setting him up to fail." For Pete's sake, "The Sports Reporters" smashed us as if we were under some obligation to hire a guy simply because of his skin color......while bashing us for supposedly hiring someone based on his skin color.......we were supposed to, you know, follow Notre Dame's lead after they hired Willingham.

Honestly I think Shula was the right decision mostly because he was the only one that couldve taken the prospect of failure best. Granted he nearly messed up and won a National Championship in 2005, but thank God he didnt. I think had we gotten a real coach like Couglin then we probably wouldve had a really good 2005 and 2006 season that wouldve made it extremely difficult to fire him after the main sanctions had passed. Croom would've been much of the same as Shula coaching wise, but the political issues associated with firing him would've been horrible.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 28, 2019

81usaf92 said:
Honestly I think Shula was the right decision mostly because he was the only one that couldve taken the prospect of failure best. Granted he nearly messed up and won a National Championship in 2005, but thank God he didnt. I think had we gotten a real coach like Couglin then we probably wouldve had a really good 2005 and 2006 season that wouldve made it extremely difficult to fire him after the main sanctions had passed. Croom would've been much of the same as Shula coaching wise, but the political issues associated with firing him would've been horrible.

I thought Coughlin should have been the choice when Fran left - at first.

But then I thought about it more and thought he didn't strike me as the kind of guy who could relate to college kids - plus, I figured we'd go through a lot of "Is this the year Coughlin goes back to the NFL?"

Crimson1967 · Jul 28, 2019

A long story, but I once went into an interview thinking they had already hired me and I was just there to chat about the position and iron out the details. Needless to say, it worked out for me as well as it did for Bowden.

And I’m fine he didn’t get the job. I never really cared for him. He probably wins a bunch and gives us stability. But it sets us down a path where Saban isn’t our coach today. And where is the barn? Tater Tot likely doesn’t take that job, what becomes of them in this alternative universe?

Curry wasn’t a good fit here, but he did have better records every year. And he didn’t get us on probation or sleep with his secretary. Not all our coaches can say that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jthomas666 · Jul 28, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
I don't know about that. The tale at the time was that Joab Thomas wanted "Alabama to be seen as more than just a football factory," and Curry's time at Tech had emphasized academics first. A look at his graduation rate shows that justification was a colossal failure (2/3 of his players were on academic probation, and the graduation rate was something like maybe 39%).

Correct. I was still at Bama at the time; Joab (no relation) was looking to chance Bama's image, and the Curry hire was part of that.

And yes, Curry's players were terrible in the classroom. I taught a highly recruited player in a freshman composition course, and he was hopeless. Every time he came in for a conference, an AD rep accompanied him and did almost all of the talking. Ended up transferring, IIRC.

Curry was a good administrative head coach in that he hired good assistants and for the most part stayed out of their way. But he was hopeless as a gameday coach.

Alabama's HC choices between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban - who else were considered?

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