Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5? - Page 2
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  1. #14
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TideEngineer08's Avatar
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    I hated even listing Penn State. But they've got a longevity that the Florida schools don't have and in the cases of Miami and Florida State, they've had difficulty maintaining their 80s success. However, you do have to admire how Miami did it under multiple coaches, and now Florida State did as well, even if Fisher burned out.

    I mention Tennessee's SEC titles simply to highlight how they've strung success together over many decades. They've done well on the national level during that time as well. But I don't have a problem with listing them behind all of the others mentioned.

  2. #15
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    I'm in agreement that #2-5 are some combination of....

    Ohio State
    Oklahoma
    USCw
    Notre Dame

    I'm just not sure where ND belongs?

    They have the pedigree to be #2 sure.... but they haven't won a National Championship in 31 years (1988-2019)!!!

    To kind of put that in perspective that's longer that our 2 most recent longest droughts COMBINED....

    1979 -1992 (13 Years) and 1992-2009 (17 Years)

    I mean they just aren't even remotely relevant on a National scale in modern times.

    If they didn't have their own network TV deal, I'm not sure people would care about them at all or even know how their seasons panned out from year to year.

  3. #16
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    My top 4 excluding Alabama are in no particular order l:

    Michigan
    Notre Dame
    USC
    Ohio State

    Next 4:

    Texas
    Oklahoma
    Florida
    LSU

    Also I donít follow directions well.

  4. #17
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    Miami is not top five, but a reasonable argument can be made for them in the Top Ten.

    I don't know that I'd agree with it, but a reasonable argument could be made.




    I might fudge a bit on Penn State.

    I think a reasonable argument can be made in favor of FSU and Miami.
    I DON'T think one can be made on behalf of Florida, who won their first SEC title in 1991 (even getting technical with saying they were the SEC's best team in 1984, they began playing in 1906).

    Miami, in particular, was quite dominant for a solid decade and then had another spurt of near greatness in 2000-2002.

    I think the top five are easy, it's just a question of "who ranks where and why."
    Legit arguments can make Ohio St or OU number two, and Notre Dame has been in (for them) a historic low post-Holtz with rare good year exceptions like 2012 and 2018.

    Below the top five, it gets much more difficult.

    The problem I have with Michigan is that the major point in their favor is "has the most wins and best winning pct (.730)."
    But their winning pct is largely controlled by their wins total, which is largely controlled by "has played the most games" - and ran up impressive numbers in pre-1950 college football.

    It seems to me that when we're going in the all-time great category, it sorta requires a team that has done a lot across a lot of different decades and especially MORE RECENTLY.
    Let's face it - the quality of football played has drastically increased over the last 50 years. So in my view, a team (like Miami, for example, or maybe Penn St) can be ranked even if they weren't very good early on but have been truly phenomenal for a long period of more recent time.

    Miami WAS - and I'm a strong critic of that whole nonsense myself - but Miami WAS the Team of the Decade for the 1980s. It's not even a close competition. While I have some beefs with HOW they won a few of those titles (they did not deserve it in 1983 over Auburn, and they ducked Florida in 1991 to smoke Nebraska in the safety of their own home field), those balance out over time, and a strong argument can be made that Miami got hosed in 1985, when they beat OU head-to-head and then watched OU play Penn St in a national title Orange Bowl. Miami was probably the best team in the USA in 1985-86-87-88, and they only got one title out of those years, but they were NOT the best team in the country in 1983, 1989, or 1991 - and they won those. So it balances out.

    But I have a hard time putting Miami either top five or even ahead of Nebraska over the long haul. Yes, both have five national titles, but Nebraska's winning pct is almost 60 points higher despite playing 316 more games than Miami.


    Florida State put together an Alabama-like run from 1987-2002, but the reality is that not only did they win "only" two titles, their 1993 title is tainted by the fact they had no damned business in the title game, and they choked more often than they champed (they lost to the eventual national champions in 1983, 1987, 1991, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2008, 2016, 2017, 2018), and even their own coach thinks their 2013 title is a fluke prevented by The Play That Shall Not Be Mentioned Here.







    Things That Matter In Determining This

    National championships (they're not the "be all and end all," but they DO matter)
    Total wins
    Winning pct
    Weeks at #1 (important because it means the perception AT THE TIME was "they're the best")


    Things That DO NOT Matter Much or AT ALL
    Heisman Trophies (little more than a popularity contest)
    conference championships (Notre Dame has zero, and all conferences are not created equally)
    big names long ago that haven't won anything in the last 50 years
    Where do you rank bowl wins and bowl winning percentage in your factors of ranking determination? Totally agree with you about Heisman trophies. When you think how many decades Alabama went without a Heisman trophy winner. Louisville's had one Heisman trophy winner. Big deal.

  5. #18
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chipeace View Post
    My top 4 excluding Alabama are in no particular order l:

    Michigan
    Notre Dame
    USC
    Ohio State

    Next 4:

    Texas
    Oklahoma
    Florida
    LSU

    Also I don’t follow directions well.
    You remember that video clip of former Indianapolis Colts head coach Jim Mora saying, "Playoffs? Playoffs?!" I need one of him questioning, "Michigan? Michigan?!"

    No one under the age of 75, SEVENTY-FIVE, remembers seeing Michigan win two national championships. Food for thought.

  6. #19
    BamaNation All-American tusks_n_raider's Avatar
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Quote Originally Posted by saturdaysarebet View Post
    You remember that video clip of former Indianapolis Colts head coach Jim Mora saying, "Playoffs? Playoffs?!" I need one of him questioning, "Michigan? Michigan?!"

    No one under the age of 75, SEVENTY-FIVE, remembers seeing Michigan win two national championships. Food for thought.
    Yeah and that most recent National Championship was 22 years ago and not Unanimous by way of Splitting it with Nebraska.

    It is a huge reason I don't even remotely consider them for the Top 5. Their last Consensus National Championship was 71 years ago!!!

    Their only real bragging rights are leading the All-Time Wins category but that's mainly because they have about a 10-15 year head start on all the other major programs.

    Sure they are a Top 10 All-Time team..... but Top 5?? Pbbbbbttt

  7. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    If based solely on number of NCs then.

    1. Alabama 17
    2. Notre Dame 13
    3. Southern Cal 11
    4. Michigan 11
    5. Ohio State 8
    Last edited by GrayTide; July 30th, 2019 at 03:07 PM.
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  8. #21
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Based on who is talking big these days, I would say Clemson by a mile. Then Jawjaw and Bama neck and neck, with Michigan and Nasty Dame in show position, and UCF bringing up the rear. You be the judge as to which of these can back up their big talk this year.

    Based on tradition, fan following, success over the years, etc., and assuming we are talking the last 60 years or so, not the geological era when Yale and the mighty T-Rex ruled the Jurassic world, I'd say 1. Bama by a good margin, 2. Ohio State, 3. Notre Dame, 4. Oklahoma, 5. Southern Cal or Texas -- too close to call. Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Florida State and Florida are in the next tier. Clemson, Georgia, LSU, Auburn and Miami are the next bracket. Wisconsin, Michigan State, Oregon, Tennessee and Texas A&M are sitting in a corner sulking.

  9. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Quote Originally Posted by saturdaysarebet View Post
    Where do you rank bowl wins and bowl winning percentage in your factors of ranking determination? Totally agree with you about Heisman trophies. When you think how many decades Alabama went without a Heisman trophy winner. Louisville's had one Heisman trophy winner. Big deal.

    Bowl games matter, but they don't matter "much."

    For starters, Big Ten teams (and N Dame and some others) will have a low bowl total because back in the days of limited bowl games, they had things like the "no repeat" rule and the Irish didn't even really compete in them until the AP said that the bowl game counted for the national title.

    But nowadays, 5-7 teams make bowl games, too. So a team like, say, Alabama could conceivably reel off fifty straight bowl seasons given that 5-7 and 6-6 teams can go.

    Furthermore, prior to 1965, they were nothing but exhibitions anyway. While it's something we can be proud of, the reality is that we were a draw and sometimes teams with better records were not.

    It matters more than Heismans, but less than overall wins and pct.

    It would take microanalysis to determine the degree to which a team was good.
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  10. #23
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    So I still like them and I’m not 75. Fla St, Miami, & Clemson are newbies to me. At least I did not pick, Army...

  11. #24
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    1. Alabama (recent Saban run leaves no argument)
    2a. Ohio State (Been relevant at some point in almost every decade other than maybe the 80s)
    2b. USC (Cheerleaders, recent and past history)
    4. Oklahoma (Mostly relevant with fewer down periods compared to other programs)
    5. Notre Dame (Historical name recognition significance plus playing across the country rival game with another top program (historical) USC plus rivalry with (a top 10 historical program) Michigan and hype from that history edges out other contenders for 5)

  12. #25
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Who you got two through five?
    2. Princeton
    3. Yale
    4. Notre Dame
    5. USC

    You did say "All time". Princeton has 28 National Championships and Yale 27.

  13. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Alabama's unquestionably the #1 all-time cfb program. Your #2 through #5?

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgByte View Post
    Who you got two through five?
    2. Princeton
    3. Yale
    4. Notre Dame
    5. USC

    You did say "All time". Princeton has 28 National Championships and Yale 27.
    Princeton and Yale won national titles when there were two or three teams, and they played 2-3 games a year amongst a bunch of all-white frat boys who
    wouldn't make their jr high flag football teams nowadays.

    It does NOT follow that 2017 Alabama is automatically better than 2003 USC.


    But there's no disputing the reality that 2017 Alabama would skull drag the 1961 Alabama team, and it wouldn't even be much of a battle.

    (And not just because those guys from the 61 team are all in their late 70s, either).
    My New Year's resolution for 2019 is this year I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less, either.

    I was married for 25 years, but if I'd killed her on the honeymoon, I'd have been out in less than 20.

    Butch Jones has richly earned his title, The Archbishop of Talentbury

    After reading all the horrible things drinking will do to you....I gave up reading.

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