Question: Will the Tennessee / Alabama game become relevant again?
- Thread starter Tide&True
- Start date
Some don't realize that the Nashville area is beginning to boom with Div 1 players. Tenn has almost closed the gap on the state of Alabama. They also have no instate competition. If they become competitive on the field again, the Atlanta area and state of Georgia as a whole will open back up to them. UGA can' take them all. UT had success last year in Georgia. OTOH, the state of Tenn's geography poses its own set of hurdles for the Vols. Like most programs, they just need a coach. Time will shortly tell if they now have one.
Sure Georgia can’t get them all... but Tennessee still comes in last to the bowl to Clemson, Alabama, Florida, FSU, Auburn, LSU, VT, and GT to the rest of those recruits. Everyone who tries to make that case for why Tennessee can be competitive with surrounding recruiting rich states fail to realize that there are programs leagues better than Tennessee eyeing those recruits.
As far as Tennessee being better than most think and closing the gap. Take in consideration that Perkins, Curry, Dubose, Fran, and Shula all won 10 games in a season. No Tennessee coach since Fulmer has done so.
"closing the gap" and "better than some think" was in regard to Div 1 talent produced by the state, not the current state or potential of the program. Even when UT was a dominant force regionally, essentially the equal of Alabama in the South from 30s-50s, they never could touch Bama's performance on the big national stage, failing time and again with never a big success. Their 2 shots in the Rose Bowl 12 years after Bama's first appearance were embarrassments including losing 14-0 in their "unscored on" season and 25-0 two years later. They even lost their bowl in their only other NC year of '51. UT is a despicable program, headed by a disgusting man PF. It would be delightful to see the streak reach 50, which is no doubt possible
. I've enjoyed each of the current 12 immensely.IMO, an ascendent UT would typically out-recruit UF, FSU, VT and LSU in the state of Georgia. But we're just guessing now. As I noted, the Nashville area is becoming a mini Atlanta area in terms of athletes now being produced. Actually, Alabama has historically had some success in Tenn, especially the Nashville area. OM especially, and Ark have had success in the Memphis area. As I said, Tenn's geography poses hurdles for UT. Also, my guess is that the Titans and Preds have sucked a little of the UT fire out of the state. An MLB team would drain a bit more.
That Tennessee normal died when Miami and Florida changed college football. The type of athletes needed to be successful are totally different, and Tennessee just doesn't have the amount of them in state."closing the gap" and "better than some think" was in regard to Div 1 talent produced by the state, not the current state or potential of the program. Even when UT was a dominant force regionally, essentially the equal of Alabama in the South from 30s-50s, they never could touch Bama's performance on the big national stage, failing time and again with never a big success. Their 2 shots in the Rose Bowl 12 years after Bama's first appearance were embarrassments including losing 14-0 in their "unscored on" season and 25-0 two years later. They even lost their bowl in their only other NC year of '51. UT is a despicable program, headed by a disgusting man PF. It would be delightful to see the streak reach 50, which is no doubt possible
Mobile, Auburn, Birmingham, and Huntsville all dwarf Nashville in terms of talent in quantity and quality. Sure Tennessee isn't a total derelict of a recruiting state as Nebraska is, but compared to who they are competing against they are probably in a slightly better situation than Kentucky. The Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri, and South Carolina schools will always have a huge advantage over Tennessee.
I dont see how the inclusion of professional teams are related to the failure of a mediocre football program.
We'll just have to disagree regarding the state of Tenn increasing its D1 recruiting output.
The inclusion of a pro team can take the edge off of the support of many fans both in number and in passion. It's happened before. It's one reason why Coach Bryant did not want an NFL team in Bham. Thus, part of the reason for the venom towards the University and Coach Bryant. Part of Coach Saban's recruiting pitch is that there are no pro sports to compete for the attention of the state of Alabama's sports fans.
Can and Does are two different things. I think many southerners (outside of Texas southerners) use this idea because there are only a few pro teams worth a damn. The Braves, Saints, Atlanta United, and Falcons are rare teams when you have the Marlins, Dolphins, Jaguars, Rays, Bucs, Magic, Hawks, and etc just wasting people's time and money. Most of the professional sports team's success depends on who the owner of that team is and how rich and motivated he is. Ted Turner comes to mind before he sold the team. Most southern pro team owners are just turn key business owners that really have no real aspirations of building a championship team. The Braves make more money than UGA, and neither are a detriment to each other.
The college game is more decided by instate talent and coaching. The pro game is decided by owner finances and GMs, the Patriots are a rare organization. More or less, if Warren Buffett wanted to start a pro team in Birmingham and was committed to its success then he probably would succeed with no adverse effects to Alabama and Auburn.
Whether CPB or CNS wanted a pro team in Bham or not has no effect on why there are no REAL pro teams in Birmingham. The MLB will never come to Birmingham from the word go, because there is noway they could meet the attendance numbers needed for a 84 game home schedule. The NFL wont come due to the lack of sponsors. So NHL and NBA are the only viable candidates. I doubt Alabama would ever support hockey. So really the NBA. But even that could be way too expensive.
"Can and does" - that's why I used the word "can" - without an in depth study were are just guessing. IMO, it's not a big issue yet with UT football, but I would guess that it has diminished their fire some. Success in the NFL game is dependent on similar and different factors as the college game, nevertheless, it often affects the fandom of nearby college programs.
There was no reference to whether Coach Bryant affected the acquisition of an NFL franchise in Alabama (IMO, he probably did.) but that he was openly concerned about it. (IMO, rightly so. Bham was a very definite candidate to get one at that time, though they have not been a threat for decades now. The thought of the NBA or MLB is a pipe dream. MLB has rightly never even been seriously mentioned that I know of.) Nor was there mention of whether CNS wanted one or not, but that he mentions the lack of a pro franchise as a recruiting point because it adds to the passion/attention of the fan base. He is right about that, which was the original point about UT. Though I think, at least at this time, it is not a major factor in UT's plight. Primarily they need a coach and to recruit their own state better (they only got 2 of the 12 4 star recruits in their state in 2019). I hope they do neither, though their instate recruiting pool is significantly improving, especially in the booming Nashville area.
The only time I recall Birmingham as a serious candidate for a pro team was when the Vikings were playing around with the idea of moving in the late 90’s early 2000’s, but Birmingham couldn’t get past Step 1 in building the Doom Dome. If Alabama was to ever get a REAL pro team then I doubt it would be Birmingham. Birmingham cannot compete with Atlanta who is 2 hrs away in any of the 3 major sports.
As far as a correlation between passion and excitement being affected by a pro team near a major college team... You are using the Titans, a bottom dweller that has little to no support as an example. The Saints don’t affect LSU, and the Braves and falcons don’t affect Georgia. Both are closer to those campuses than the Titans are to the Vols. If anything I think there is more evidence to suggest having a major pro team close by increases a college’s recruiting. I again think this argument is based off the fact that most southern pro teams are crap, and people take it is why college sports are highly successful in the south. But I think it’s missing the facts that wins in pro sports are mostly determined by dollars and not coaching.
While Nashville is increasing its D1 player output, Memphis is still the recruiting hot bed in Tennessee. Most of Nashville's D1 recruits have come from the predominantly all white private schools. Tennessee does not produce D1 talent on the level with Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi or Louisiana.
That is hilarious right there...Coach Stallings' famous quote about Vanderbilt now relating to puke orange. Good stuff!
That's up for debate. Tenn is catching up with Alabama and Louisiana in terms of 4 star =>, just a notch behind, it has passed Mississippi. Georgia and Florida are in a completely different class than Al, La, Tenn and Miss. And Fla is ahead of Ga.
This year, 2020, 247 Composite 4 star and above recruits:
Florida: 58
Georgia: 32
Alabama: 15
Louisiana: 15
Tenn: 11
Miss: 5
2019
Florida: 46
Georgia: 40
Alabama: 15
Louisiana: 16
Tenn: 12
Miss: 16 (an anomaly, they had 4 in 2018, 7 in 2017 and 5 in 2020)
The competition in Alabama is far more fierce than in Tennessee. Just because they are 4 stars doesn't mean they are equal to Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, and California 4 stars. There is a reason that if you make a top 10 list of the greatest Tennessee players since 1983 you would probably have 7-8 of them from out of state. But again if these recruits were so valuable then Tennessee should've had been in major bowl games under Kiffin, Dooley, and Butch. The best bowl they have made it to has been the Outback bowl while Alabama, Auburn, Florida, and LSU all have had their share of horrid coaches since 97 and have played in big bowls because of talent.
The evaluations are made from a national perspective. Of course everyone is just making an educated guess. It could be that Tenn's 4 stars are better than the others'. It's the same people making the final decision for the evaluations regardless of their home state. But more importantly this boon in Tenn talent that I'm talking about is just in the last 3-4 years, 30+ years after 1983. Not only that, like i mentioned earlier UT is not even getting most of their own state's talent - though that is happening in many states/programs.
We have real trouble communicating. I haven't in any way implied that UT has had much success in the last 10-12 years, nor or they guaranteed any future success. All I've said on the positive side for UT is that their state is producing more and more D1 talent than in the past - primarily because of the Nashville area explosion. The program itself has not taken advantage to this point, though they've hardly had time since it's only been the last 2-4 years that the talent has grown up. E.g., UT only got 2 of the 12 blue chips in their own state in the 19 class. They seem to be doing better this year.
I lived in Omaha for 6 years, and heard from the moron Husker fans about "how Lincoln and Omaha are booming with talent", but yet Nebraska gets the lionshare of Nebraska 4 star recruits and still they cant beat a bunch of Alabama and Georgia 2 and 3 star recruits. Tennessee is like Nebraska, but in a slightly better situation in which the big instate talent is on one side of a landlocked state. I think you are way overselling the emergence of Nashville as a boom in QUALITY of recruiting. Alabama has far more quality instate players than Tennessee has or ever will have, hell I would say you could just limit it to Mobile, Auburn, or Birmingham alone and have more quality than Tennessee.
No the problem is that you keep acting like Nashville all of the sudden fixes Tennessee's instate recruiting because you feel its "mini Atlanta". Memphis is and always has been the crown jewel of Tennessee talent, but the problem is that it is a border city that gets raided by everyone close. But even if you truly believe Nashville is "mini Atlanta", then where is the other instate talent to even compare to Alabama, Florida, and Georgia?Georgia is far more than Atlanta, Tennessee is not much more than Memphis and Nashville. Meaning there is far more talent around the state of Georgia than Atlanta, and far less talent outside Nashville and Memphis in the state of Tennessee. The more spread out geographical areas of talent in a state typically make for better competition. Better competition typically gives you better and more experienced players. That is a huge reason Alabama, Georgia, and Florida all destroy Tennessee in recruiting and on the field.
Your conclusions based on what you think I said are remarkable. I've tried to take you seriously and answer in a civil manner. But we have a failure to communicate and I have addressed the same things more than once. I'm through with this one.
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