Who is the worst headcoach to win a national championship?

Worst one to win it all


  • Total voters
    104

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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Just scrolled through that 2012 thread. Man there were a lot of posters who are no longer either with us or just don't post anymore. Wonder whatever happened to Tommy Mac, he was one of my all time favorites. I would probably have to cast my vote for Chizik, he did nothing before of after the 2010 NC as a head coach.
I don't know, and I didn't know about his insult at the time either or I'd have zinged him as well.

Disagree with me all you want folks, but don't even try this crap about stacking the deck to evaluate stuff.
I had a "no longer here" yutz get on my case about Curry and Stallings, and all I was saying was that Stallings's actual record as a head coach did not exactly commend him to be the head coach here. At no time did I EVER say Curry was a better coach, esp since I don't believe that.

But looking at the records AND the situations before they came here?? Curry's record did commend him more than Stallings.

As far as this whole Johnny Majors-Gene Chizik thing, well, I miss Majors in the sense that he did coach them when UA/UT was the best rivalry in the SEC, a gallant respect-fest of one another. So he'll always be remembered well (by me anyway) for that time frame.
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
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Whew, That was lot of folks that was suspended in that thread LOL.
A bit shocking........................some folks none of us probably remember. Others, like 'Sip, were long-time contributors. I forget what he did to get the axe. One was so recent no one has probably noticed yet. (Hint: you might want to steer clear of the NS section.) Tommy Mac has not been around in a while. Ditto for gmart................think it was because he was getting married. (Wonder if he still is!)

And some of us are still seasoned citizens, and our memory hasn't improved. At least it hasn't gotten worse, so there is that.

The best part is we only have to endure around 2 more weeks of this filler material, before we really have something to get suspended over.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
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A bit shocking........................some folks none of us probably remember. Others, like 'Sip, were long-time contributors. I forget what he did to get the axe. One was so recent no one has probably noticed yet. (Hint: you might want to steer clear of the NS section.) Tommy Mac has not been around in a while. Ditto for gmart................think it was because he was getting married. (Wonder if he still is!)

And some of us are still seasoned citizens, and our memory hasn't improved. At least it hasn't gotten worse, so there is that.

The best part is we only have to endure around 2 more weeks of this filler material, before we really have something to get suspended over.
IIRC Tommy Mac had some serious health issues. Hope he is still with us.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
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That's a stunt that a ten year-old would pull... :rolleyes:

:
So is just continuing to call someone an Auburn fan just because you don’t agree with them, and offering little more than that to your posts.

Look, I love bashing internet trolls, like yourself , like the next guy, it really sometimes makes things fun. But I think I’ve let this go on for a little longer than I should in the hopes that you had some fun comebacks or good dialogue to offer. But you just aren’t good at it and offer no wit to your trolling. So before a mod comes around and sees these exchanges as ignorant sparing or drunk posting, I think this conversation absolutely needs to come to an end. So m done conversing with you on this thread.

Good day bests
 
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USCBAMA

All-SEC
Sep 21, 2001
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I tend to look at coaches who did less with more when considering bad coaches. To me that makes this a 2-horse race between Coker & Chizik, with honorable mention to Carr. It’s hard not to put Chizik #1, but it’s also hard not to recognize that, after his 1st season, no coach on this list did less with more than Coker. It took Carr much longer to drag down Michigan program than it did Coker at Miami, but if you watched those Michigan teams and looked at their talent level, you recognized there was not a lot of great coaching going on there, so honorable mention for Carr. I’m at a tie between Chiz & Coker.

Erickson gets a bit of a bad rap here. He may not be a true top-tier coach, but he is a solid/good coach (whereas the 3 above were just not very good coaches). Erickson may have walked into a title, but getting the second one does vindicate him. 2 titles is 2 titles.

A coach who probably should not be on this list is Ross. He actually goes under the category of a coach who did more with less, winning at traditionally mediocre programs. If you were picking a coach to turn your program around, you’d be a football idiot to take Coker, Chizik, or Carr over Ross. Those coaches had to already have talent to win, Ross built talent and won.
 

selmaborntidefan

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That's a stunt that a ten year-old would pull... :rolleyes:

As far as your defense of Chizik, I think the Poll Results say it all. :cool:
When the prior post was made in February 2012, it was reasonable to conclude that a lot of fans were just simply enraged over the 2010 title win.
Not that they didn't have a point - in fact, they did - but it was too soon to make that assessment.


I think given what has happened since then, Chizik is a reasonable answer to the question. In fact, it seems to me that we can reduce the entire list of candidates to:
Paul Dietzel
Gene Chizik
Bobby Ross
Lloyd Carr
Howard Schnellenberger


And context determines everything.

I don't think it's Dietzel, although a case can be made. He took over a 5-6 team and won 3, 3, 5, and then a national title. But unlike Chizik, he followed his title with a 9-2 year.....then he was 5-4-1, but he then jumped back to a 10-win season and was gone from LSU.

He was then at Army, and they were so-so. At South Carolina - given the time and context - his record is not really that bad (1-9 his first year to 5 wins, 4 wins, and 7-4 but then a regression).

Schnell's career is skewed by his late career at FAU, which lowered his overall career total. He built Miami from 5-6 to a national title - and then a national power as he left - in just five years. His numbers at Miami in the context of the time are unbelievably good. He took over a train wreck at Louisville and had 8 wins in season four and a 10-1-1 Fiesta Bowl winner his sixth year. Yes, they collapsed, but he recovered.

His tenure at OU was walking into a terrible situation....and he was 61 years old and starting over. If we spot him the late years, he doesn't belong in this list, either.


So the "actual" list is Chizik, Carr, and Ross.

And while I note 81's correct observation of Carr's stupid decision-making, I'm hesitant to take it down to one decision. Hell, the dumbest decision of all-time was Pete Carroll at the one-yard line with Lynch in the backfield saying, "Yeah, I think we ought to pass here." True, that was in the NFL - but that also makes his decision-making all the more insane, too. Carr's overall record of 122-40, 5 Big Ten titles in 13 season...and five Top Ten finishes....well, I just think he doesn't even belong in the discussion.


We're down to Chizik and Ross.

Ross was 7 games under .500 at the Citadel, not a bad record at all in context. He took over Jerry Claiborne's 4-6-1 Maryland team and had four 8-win and above seasons....again, VERY GOOD in context at Maryland. While it can be said he won with Claiborne's players, the time frame mitigates that a tad. He took over a program Bill Curry (!) had turned around and then blew it apart and rebuilt it. His national title was a Johnny Majors level fluke, but here's where I think the separation occurs:

Bobby Ross was an NFL assistant for 4 years at KC (under Marv Levy).
He was an NFL head coach of average (at best) accomplishment who made the playoffs 3 of his first 4 years in San Diego - including the improbable (e.g. lucky) Super Bowl run.



Bobby Ross and Howard Schnellenberger (an assistant prior to his disaster as a HC) both coached in the NFL.

Has Gene Chizik's name ever come up in a serious context as a possible NFL assistant or coach?


That settles it for me.

It's Chizik.
 

81usaf92

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When the prior post was made in February 2012, it was reasonable to conclude that a lot of fans were just simply enraged over the 2010 title win.
Not that they didn't have a point - in fact, they did - but it was too soon to make that assessment.


I think given what has happened since then, Chizik is a reasonable answer to the question. In fact, it seems to me that we can reduce the entire list of candidates to:
Paul Dietzel
Gene Chizik
Bobby Ross
Lloyd Carr
Howard Schnellenberger


And context determines everything.

I don't think it's Dietzel, although a case can be made. He took over a 5-6 team and won 3, 3, 5, and then a national title. But unlike Chizik, he followed his title with a 9-2 year.....then he was 5-4-1, but he then jumped back to a 10-win season and was gone from LSU.

He was then at Army, and they were so-so. At South Carolina - given the time and context - his record is not really that bad (1-9 his first year to 5 wins, 4 wins, and 7-4 but then a regression).

Schnell's career is skewed by his late career at FAU, which lowered his overall career total. He built Miami from 5-6 to a national title - and then a national power as he left - in just five years. His numbers at Miami in the context of the time are unbelievably good. He took over a train wreck at Louisville and had 8 wins in season four and a 10-1-1 Fiesta Bowl winner his sixth year. Yes, they collapsed, but he recovered.

His tenure at OU was walking into a terrible situation....and he was 61 years old and starting over. If we spot him the late years, he doesn't belong in this list, either.


So the "actual" list is Chizik, Carr, and Ross.

And while I note 81's correct observation of Carr's stupid decision-making, I'm hesitant to take it down to one decision. Hell, the dumbest decision of all-time was Pete Carroll at the one-yard line with Lynch in the backfield saying, "Yeah, I think we ought to pass here." True, that was in the NFL - but that also makes his decision-making all the more insane, too. Carr's overall record of 122-40, 5 Big Ten titles in 13 season...and five Top Ten finishes....well, I just think he doesn't even belong in the discussion.


We're down to Chizik and Ross.

Ross was 7 games under .500 at the Citadel, not a bad record at all in context. He took over Jerry Claiborne's 4-6-1 Maryland team and had four 8-win and above seasons....again, VERY GOOD in context at Maryland. While it can be said he won with Claiborne's players, the time frame mitigates that a tad. He took over a program Bill Curry (!) had turned around and then blew it apart and rebuilt it. His national title was a Johnny Majors level fluke, but here's where I think the separation occurs:

Bobby Ross was an NFL assistant for 4 years at KC (under Marv Levy).
He was an NFL head coach of average (at best) accomplishment who made the playoffs 3 of his first 4 years in San Diego - including the improbable (e.g. lucky) Super Bowl run.



Bobby Ross and Howard Schnellenberger (an assistant prior to his disaster as a HC) both coached in the NFL.

Has Gene Chizik's name ever come up in a serious context as a possible NFL assistant or coach?


That settles it for me.

It's Chizik.
Just curious, why is Larry Coker not in the running for you, but Bobby Ross is?
 

selmaborntidefan

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Just curious, why is Larry Coker not in the running for you, but Bobby Ross is?
Ross probably shouldn't be.


And maybe Coker shouldn't be, either.


Basically, everyone is doing the "oh, he had that great team and great record and then fell apart."

His "falling apart" coincided with.....wait for it.....moving to the ACC.

Let's look at Coker a moment.

1) Coker was the OC on those Miami teams that scored all those points (1995-2000).

Now, I don't know how deeply involved he was in recruiting yadda yadda, but the fact is that he knew those guys that won very well.

2) How many folks have actually LOOKED at Coker's record?

He never even had a losing season. He was 53-9 in his first five years and then went 7-6.

He had a 2-loss top five team in 2003, losing to a then #10 Va Tech (who fell apart right after blowing out Miami - go figure) and 10-3 Tennessee by four points.

Then he moved to the ACC and suddenly had 3 conference losses to Clemson, UNC, and a 10-win Va Tech.

In 2005, he again goes 9-3 in the ACC and goes 2-2 against ranked foes, culminating in a 40-3 smashing at the hands of LSU. He loses by 3 on the road to the eventual ACC champion FSU (albeit a 5-loss FSU) and the Ga Tech while finally smashing Va Tech finishes the year at #7.

Coker in five years 53-9, Chizik in four years at Auburn, 38-38....and that was with prior HC experience in addition to two consecutive unbeaten seasons at Auburn (04) and Texas (05).


I'm not arguing that Coker was good coach, but I don't think the numbers justify "worst coach to win it all". He was 9-3 four years after losing that monster 2001 group.
Miami's schedules in 2004 and 2005 were substantially tougher than in 2002, and they dropped from 11-2 to 9-3.

He has that terrible year after they make him fire his assistants - they can him - and that's it.

And it's probably no accident that his demise in the state of Florida coincided with the hiring of Urban Meyer at Florida, too.


It's amazing to me how Butch Davis was coming to Alabama and a so-called great coach.....how come he gets credit for building "the team Coker inherited" but he's been a bigger colossal failure since then than Coker ever dreamed of being?

He was 24-25 as an NFL coach and blew a huge lead to the Steelers in his only playoff appearance.
His UNC record was due to NCAA violations.....which might beg the question of what exactly he did to win at Miami in a rational world.

It's just amusing to me that Davis gets the credit for Coker's national title when Davis has been shown to be an average at best coach himself.
 

NoNC4Tubs

Hall of Fame
Nov 13, 2010
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I think given what has happened since then, Chizik is a reasonable answer to the question. In fact, it seems to me that we can reduce the entire list of candidates to:
Paul Dietzel
Gene Chizik
Bobby Ross
Lloyd Carr
Howard Schnellenberger


And context determines everything.

Schnell's career is skewed by his late career at FAU, which lowered his overall career total. He built Miami from 5-6 to a national title - and then a national power as he left - in just five years. His numbers at Miami in the context of the time are unbelievably good. He took over a train wreck at Louisville and had 8 wins in season four and a 10-1-1 Fiesta Bowl winner his sixth year. Yes, they collapsed, but he recovered.

His tenure at OU was walking into a terrible situation....and he was 61 years old and starting over. If we spot him the late years, he doesn't belong in this list, either.
I think Schnell isn't on the list for a good reason. He is to Miami what Bobby Bowden is to FSU. He put Miami on the map and was indeed a very good coach when he won his NC. Unfortunately alcohol entered into the equation later in his career and obviously brought him down.
 

NoNC4Tubs

Hall of Fame
Nov 13, 2010
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Let's look at this thread a different way.

Another good way to judge a really bad NC winning HC would be by the actions of his own school administration. How long did that coach last after they won their NC? Just think about it. What better judges are there for the ineptitude of a coach than the persons that are around and over him everyday…?

Chizik lasted ~22 months.

I seriously doubt any other coach was fired any sooner than that by their employer... :cool2:

On a side note, awbern will never erect statues of their NC winning coaches lest they have to put one up for him... which will NEVER happen. :biggrin:
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Tina’s actually a very good choice, I hadn’t considered that one yet. Only Les Miles could win a championship with 2 losses.
Murray Warmath won the 1960 national championship at Minnesota with two losses and had a career coaching record of 97-84-10.

Les Miles took over an Okie St team that had had 3 straight losing seasons and was 3-8 when he got there.

His very first year, he knocked off #4 Oklahoma (23-1 in their previous 24 games) in Norman.
His second year, they went 8-5 and beat Oklahoma AGAIN.

His third year, they went 9-4.....losing to 10-3 Nebraska, the OU team Saban beat for the championship, and Vince Young. He then lost a close Cotton Bowl to Eli Manning.

His fourth year, they did regress......to 7-5......and then he went to LSU.

Miles's record at LSU is 114-34.

Subtract those five consecutive losses to one team - the dynastic Alabama (2011-2015) - and he's 114-29, a winning pct of .797.

Les Miles could beat almost anyone all the time EXCEPT Alabama, and he was far better at Okie St than Chizik was at Iowa St.
(Hell, Miles was better at Okie State at 28-21 than Chizik was at AUBURN!).
 

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