Game Thread: Oklahoma vs Houston Game Thread: Jalen QB watch

rgw said:

Jalen definitely had the best week of any of the big name QBs.

Fromm: workman-like game where they mostly just handed it off and didn't show anything with ND game in a few weeks

Tua: Nearly flawless but only had 300+ yards and 4 TDs

Hunter Lawrence: 50% completion with less than 200 yards and 2 INT

Justin Hebert: Solid game but had a few errors that cost them big time.




Jalen definitely had the best week but frankly I think it was mostly as big as it was because he played more series against a bad defense than he would most games of this type in Tuscaloosa.

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Not to mention that Tua only played just shy of 3 quarters.

Jalen really might win the Heisman. Lincoln Riley is really good.

OneManBamaFan said:

How exactly does the kid at Clemson have it wrapped up??????

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probably in a man bun

RollTide_HTTR said:

Jalen really might win the Heisman. Lincoln Riley is really good.

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Last year when Heisman voters left Tua completely off the ballot just to increase the chances that "Anybody but an Alabama player" would in the Heisman, I was disillusioned with the Heisman voting process.
An decent argument could be made that Kyler was a better player better than Tua because Kyler had to score every drive for the Sooners to win (I don't happen to buy that argument, but a decent argument could be made along those lines). But any voter who left Tua completely off the ballot in order to help Kyler head to head against Tua should lose his dad gum voting privileges. That was a disgrace.

I really like Jalen and have said all along that he had a higher ceiling than a lot of people seemed to realize. I also said he'd be a Heisman candidate if he went there and joked around about it happening before Jalen even entered the portal.

Having said that, if you can't figure out that Oklahoma's system inflates QB stats by now, you're an idiot. Not only that, but there's this double standard with Oklahoma that doesn't always apply elsewhere.

For instance, a quarterback once threw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs without getting any Heisman hype. He went on to become an NFL MVP. That's Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech. Thing is Mahomes is only third all time in yards at Tech, Harrel and Kingsbury are ahead of him. These guys put up monster seasons at Tech, and no one cared because it was Tech and we all knew the numbers were inflated. Oklahoma though? People are like yeah let's give every quarterback that starts there a Heisman, it's ridiculous and Tua for the record was robbed.

Alabama scored 42 points against Duke. Duke's defense was ranked 72 last season. Oklahoma scored 49 against Houston. Houston's defense was ranked 119.
Yet, just because Okahoma asked their quarterback to do more, there are people who are going to conclude that their quarterback also did better...

KrAzY3 said:

I really like Jalen and have said all along that he had a higher ceiling than a lot of people seemed to realize. I also said he'd be a Heisman candidate if he went there and joked around about it happening before Jalen even entered the portal.

Having said that, if you can't figure out that Oklahoma's system inflates QB stats by now, you're an idiot. Not only that, but there's this double standard with Oklahoma that doesn't always apply elsewhere.

For instance, a quarterback once threw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs without getting any Heisman hype. He went on to become an NFL MVP. That's Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech. Thing is Mahomes is only third all time in yards at Tech, Harrel and Kingsbury are ahead of him. These guys put up monster seasons at Tech, and no one cared because it was Tech and we all knew the numbers were inflated. Oklahoma though? People are like yeah let's give every quarterback that starts there a Heisman, it's ridiculous and Tua for the record was robbed.

Alabama scored 42 points against Duke. Duke's defense was ranked 72 last season. Oklahoma scored 49 against Houston. Houston's defense was ranked 119.
Yet, just because Okahoma asked their quarterback to do more, there are people who are going to conclude that their quarterback also did better...

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People will conclude because they're told to conclude.................by the ESPN "experts".

New year same OU defense.

KrAzY3 said:

I really like Jalen and have said all along that he had a higher ceiling than a lot of people seemed to realize. I also said he'd be a Heisman candidate if he went there and joked around about it happening before Jalen even entered the portal.

Having said that, if you can't figure out that Oklahoma's system inflates QB stats by now, you're an idiot. Not only that, but there's this double standard with Oklahoma that doesn't always apply elsewhere.

For instance, a quarterback once threw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs without getting any Heisman hype. He went on to become an NFL MVP. That's Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech. Thing is Mahomes is only third all time in yards at Tech, Harrel and Kingsbury are ahead of him. These guys put up monster seasons at Tech, and no one cared because it was Tech and we all knew the numbers were inflated. Oklahoma though? People are like yeah let's give every quarterback that starts there a Heisman, it's ridiculous and Tua for the record was robbed.

Alabama scored 42 points against Duke. Duke's defense was ranked 72 last season. Oklahoma scored 49 against Houston. Houston's defense was ranked 119.
Yet, just because Okahoma asked their quarterback to do more, there are people who are going to conclude that their quarterback also did better...

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I agree, and I think they do the same thing for Lincoln Riley. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he has a good offensive mind, but other guys have been doing the same things for years now. I think that some people just want one of these "all offense all the time" teams to win a title, and they know that OU probably has the best chance to do so.

RollTide_HTTR said:

Jalen really might win the Heisman. Lincoln Riley is really good.

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And stuff like this is why the Heisman Trophy is a laughable joke at every level.


Years ago when Texas Tech and Hawaii had the top passers in the nation, nobody with a brain gave them any consideration for the Heisman because "system quarterback something something."

Now we have a case where I'm supposed to believe for three straight years the same team that put three different guys there who had eye-popping numbers were somehow all the best player in the nation - and this will be the second year in a row where it was a guy who left his previous school because he wasn't even the best player on his own team. And since Tua is still playing, there is literally no chance in the world that Hurts is "the best player."

And it's what makes that trophy a sick joke: it's simply because "he plays for Oklahoma." That's it.

If you play for Notre Dame, USC, or Oklahoma, you get "privilege points" that other players don't get. The really bizarre part is that in the years Ingram and Henry won the Heisman, they were probably NOT the best player in the country......they were "the skill position player on a national title contender that we media types can hype every week."

There have been 150 better defensive players than Manti Teo just since 2000. He got the hype......because he played for Notre Dame. Suh is another over-hyped joke. (Simply consider the lack of consideration Derrick Thomas got for the Heisman, and without Thomas in 1988, Alabama's 9-3 becomes about 6-6).

The award, quite frankly, has always been a joke, with sliding criteria based upon who gets the hype. I was glad Ingram won it simply because people judge folks by it - and it's damned near insane that a program as glorious as Alabama never had a winner as "best player" - but let's accept that it's a laughable joke where voters in one region can stack the process by intentionally leaving a guy off their lists to elevate their own region's contender.

selmaborntidefan said:

And stuff like this is why the Heisman Trophy is a laughable joke at every level.


Years ago when Texas Tech and Hawaii had the top passers in the nation, nobody with a brain gave them any consideration for the Heisman because "system quarterback something something."

Now we have a case where I'm supposed to believe for three straight years the same team that put three different guys there who had eye-popping numbers were somehow all the best player in the nation - and this will be the second year in a row where it was a guy who left his previous school because he wasn't even the best player on his own team. And since Tua is still playing, there is literally no chance in the world that Hurts is "the best player."

And it's what makes that trophy a sick joke: it's simply because "he plays for Oklahoma." That's it.

If you play for Notre Dame, USC, or Oklahoma, you get "privilege points" that other players don't get. The really bizarre part is that in the years Ingram and Henry won the Heisman, they were probably NOT the best player in the country......they were "the skill position player on a national title contender that we media types can hype every week."

There have been 150 better defensive players than Manti Teo just since 2000. He got the hype......because he played for Notre Dame. Suh is another over-hyped joke. (Simply consider the lack of consideration Derrick Thomas got for the Heisman, and without Thomas in 1988, Alabama's 9-3 becomes about 6-6).

The award, quite frankly, has always been a joke, with sliding criteria based upon who gets the hype. I was glad Ingram won it simply because people judge folks by it - and it's damned near insane that a program as glorious as Alabama never had a winner as "best player" - but let's accept that it's a laughable joke where voters in one region can stack the process by intentionally leaving a guy off their lists to elevate their own region's contender.

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Sounds a lot like what happened in 1966...………...we all know how that went

I didn't see this before I posted, but you're dead on right, man.

KrAzY3 said:

I really like Jalen and have said all along that he had a higher ceiling than a lot of people seemed to realize. I also said he'd be a Heisman candidate if he went there and joked around about it happening before Jalen even entered the portal.

Having said that, if you can't figure out that Oklahoma's system inflates QB stats by now, you're an idiot. Not only that, but there's this double standard with Oklahoma that doesn't always apply elsewhere.

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Now, I'll be fair, and it won't be popular here but - to a certain extent (not quite as much as the example cited above), the same is true regarding us and the rankings. Most of the time, our losses don't "count." Let's be honest: if in 2011 we had been in a "pick the opponent" contest with a one-loss Oklahoma or Texas (rather than Okie St), we very probably don't get selected. The same thing happened when Ohio St jumped TCU in the 2014 playoff selection.

But yes, you're absolutely correct about that.

KrAzY3 said:

For instance, a quarterback once threw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs without getting any Heisman hype. He went on to become an NFL MVP. That's Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech. Thing is Mahomes is only third all time in yards at Tech, Harrel and Kingsbury are ahead of him. These guys put up monster seasons at Tech, and no one cared because it was Tech and we all knew the numbers were inflated. Oklahoma though? People are like yeah let's give every quarterback that starts there a Heisman, it's ridiculous and Tua for the record was robbed.

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Oh, absolutely, and the funny thing was the piddly defenses (no pun intended) that the OU fans offered last December are now flipped on their heads. "Oh, if you took Murray off OU, they'd be a 7-4 team, but if you took Tua off of Alabama, they'd still be undefeated." What we're now finding out is that you can take the guy who wasn't as good as Tua, put him on Oklahoma, and he can run up big numbers, which proves the point. I mean, you could take ALMOST any QB of minimal talent, put him with that system and compile some mind-boggling numbers.

You'd think that the eye opening would occur with what has happened with their Heisman winners in the NFL.

KrAzY3 said:

Alabama scored 42 points against Duke. Duke's defense was ranked 72 last season. Oklahoma scored 49 against Houston. Houston's defense was ranked 119.
Yet, just because Okahoma asked their quarterback to do more, there are people who are going to conclude that their quarterback also did better...

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Again, I like Jalen and always have, so it's going to sound nutty - but you can't possibly be the best player in America when the guy you couldn't beat out on your own team is still playing ball.

Now - I also concur with you regarding Hurts. My theory - and no, I don't have any "inside information" - has always been that Hurts was going against that awesome 2016 defense in practice and probably made a lot of turnovers throwing the ball. I think that got in his head and - combined with all the drama surrounding the OC position that year - probably affected him deeply. My god, the kid was what, 18 years old when he walked on the field against USC?

I figure he thought, "It's better to not turn the ball over and run if I have to," so he had guys open but was afraid of a Minkah or Eddie "break on the ball" from other teams - so he tucked and ran.

Again - it's just a theory, but it looked like the case at least in 2016.

Just being honest here, I am not pulling for Jalen. I want Tua to get the Heisman and I think he needs Jalen to not look like Superman in a crap defense league. Basically, Jalen went from playing Madden on All-Star to playing on Rookie.

It’s not fair to every other team in the country that OU gets to go up against practice squads all year and still gets their QBs in as Heisman finalist. OU QBs should have to double up every other QB’s stats just to be in the conversation. Man, if Tua was at OU, he’d probably have thrown 8 TDs and had almost 700 yards.

If Jalen was really THIS good, where was this production at Alabama?

Whatever, life goes on but, it’s a complete joke the hype OU gets in a league that doesn’t play defense.

I’d be thrilled to not see threads about Jalen here on my favorite Bama board. I loved him when he was here but now he is with another team and his allegiance is with that team. I sure do hope I don’t see Jalen threads all year. Or maybe we should have a Jalen “catch-all” thread.


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TideEngineer08 said:

No, in fact, that was the worst defense of Nick Saban's tenure since his first season here.

Your last sentence makes my point. Oklahoma did not have even a passing semblance of a defense last year, and it appears they aren't much better this year either. And the rest of the Big 12 is right there with them. If he stays healthy, Jalen is going to pass for 4500 yards and add another 1500 on the ground. He would never have been able to do that in the SEC. Cam Newton and Tim Tebow didn't even do that.

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You are basing all of this season on one game....the defense you saw last night was bad but not terrible like last year....will it be enough to get us to the title game....that is yet to be seen.....and as far aslast year being the worst Bama D under Saban and not representing SEC defenses, I offer AUburns D and Georgias D that OU did a pretty good job on...the idea that B12 D is horrible is right in line with SEC O being horrible as well....Are Big12 D as good as SEC D--no, but then again SEC O isn't as good as B12 O

I mean look they will play some better defenses. And maybe Houston is really garbage but I'm not convinced there are tmany Big 12 defenses that are THAT much better. In other words, he'll have plenty of wide open WRs. But idk what you're supposed to do about a guy putting up these numbers (if he does actually continue to do so)

20 for 23 332yards 14.4ypa 3TDs
16 carries 176 yards and 11ypc and 3tds.

Apparently that stay line has only been matched by Johnny Manziel or something. If he puts up anything close to that on a semi regular basis while avoiding any really bad games hes going to have a shot at the Heisman. A good one. And he'll deserve the consideration and to be invited to NYC.

Idk. I'm unconcerned. I think if Tua balls out he'll still win it and I think Jalen will have a bad game or 2. Happy for Jalen and hope he comes in 2nd in the Heisman over TL.

I'm more worried we are going to have to play them in the playoffs. It wouldn't as enjoyable beating Oklahoma down with him at QB.

soonerforever said:

You are basing all of this season on one game....the defense you saw last night was bad but not terrible like last year....will it be enough to get us to the title game....that is yet to be seen.....and as far aslast year being the worst Bama D under Saban and not representing SEC defenses, I offer AUburns D and Georgias D that OU did a pretty good job on...the idea that B12 D is horrible is right in line with SEC O being horrible as well....Are Big12 D as good as SEC D--no, but then again SEC O isn't as good as B12 O

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You're absolutely correct to not base stuff on one game. I actually thought - maybe - that OU had picked it up just a tad on defense, but again - we'll see.

You have a bit of a point with Georgia, but Auburn's 2016 defense wasn't very good in the first place. They yielded almost 400 yards per game before they played OU, and yielded 25 ppg, which was 9th in the SEC - and was a worse defense than either Vandy or Tennessee. Yes, OU exceeded the usual points surrendered, but hell, Alabama got 30 points on that same Auburn defense - and Alabama's offense wasn't in the same solar system as OU's.

In general, though, I agree with your points, and we have a lot of "over reacting" to one game here. It's not just here - it goes on everywhere people discuss CFB. I'll never understand why.

soonerforever said:

Did Bama's D not play SEC D against us last year

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I guess you missed when that little "nobody can stop him" quarterback got pulled down with ONE HAND, eh?

soonerforever said:

.....your D was gassed, against us...if we had any type of D----we might have taken you

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Yes, and if Boise State something something.....

Big 12 O

Big 12 D

SEC O

SEC D




Minutiae from ESPN

RollTide_HTTR said:

I mean look they will play some better defenses. And maybe Houston is really garbage but I'm not convinced there are tmany Big 12 defenses that are THAT much better. In other words, he'll have plenty of wide open WRs. But idk what you're supposed to do about a guy putting up these numbers (if he does actually continue to do so)

20 for 23 332yards 14.4ypa 3TDs
16 carries 176 yards and 11ypc and 3tds.

Apparently that stay line has only been matched by Johnny Manziel or something. If he puts up anything close to that on a semi regular basis while avoiding any really bad games hes going to have a shot at the Heisman. A good one. And he'll deserve the consideration and to be invited to NYC.

Idk. I'm unconcerned. I think if Tua balls out he'll still win it and I think Jalen will have a bad game or 2. Happy for Jalen and hope he comes in 2nd in the Heisman over TL.

I'm more worried we are going to have to play them in the playoffs. It wouldn't as enjoyable beating Oklahoma down with him at QB.

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I'm with you on this. The ESPN SEC QB metrics ranking had Joe Burrow at 95.6 and Tua at 94.9. Jalen ranked at 98.7. I know this is only one game, but still.