Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style) - Page 2
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  1. #14
    BamaNation All-American IMALOYAL1's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I believe LSU has a very strong defense. Against UT their defense got very tired. Fortunately their offense didn't let up. I think it's hard to get an O'line that is very good at pass protection and run blocking. I don't want to give up on the run entirely.
    I also don't like the mush rush on defense.

    The big pass blocking lines have trouble with pulling on run plays. Hopefully we can learn to do both. We also need a running-back to step forward and get a consistent 5 yards or more.

    Does anyone use zone blocking anymore?

  2. #15
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Respectively, what is the mush rush?

  3. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by howmag View Post
    Respectively, what is the mush rush?
    It is a "contain the QB in the pocket" type of rush. Don't be too aggressive lest the QB escape the pocket and hurt you with his legs. It really does not affect the QB unless done perfectly.

  4. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaJama17's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Looking back at it. How was LSUís defense able to keep Johnny Menziel more or less contained compared to Alabama?? Better players, better coaching?? I know that was still around the time the HUNH (well at least the SEC) was still taking over college football. From 2007-2012 scoring 30+ on Alabama was a rare thing. It only happened 6 times. Yet from 2013-now, it has happened 13 times. I think we probably wonít see another 2011 type defense again imo. Offense and the rules have changed to much.

  5. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJama17 View Post
    Looking back at it. How was LSU’s defense able to keep Johnny Menziel more or less contained compared to Alabama?? Better players, better coaching?? I know that was still around the time the HUNH (well at least the SEC) was still taking over college football. From 2007-2012 scoring 30+ on Alabama was a rare thing. It only happened 6 times. Yet from 2013-now, it has happened 13 times. I think we probably won’t see another 2011 type defense again imo. Offense and the rules have changed to much.
    As I recall, they actually hit him. Most teams got close but only flushed him.

  6. #19
    BamaNation All-American Tide&True's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to peopleís short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


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  7. #20
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide&True View Post
    I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


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    I mostly agree with you; The Army / Michigan game was exciting to watch for me despite 4 yard runs taking the place of 40 yard passes. Run based football can lead to exciting football.

  8. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    The game has changed because people like Spurrier found a way to utilize talent in a way that killed these dinosaur program's style of playing. We are more going to a hybrid of both old school and new school way of thinking over one side or the other.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  9. #22
    BamaNation First Team DogPatch's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide&True View Post
    I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.
    Amen.
    Last edited by DogPatch; September 11th, 2019 at 07:34 PM.

  10. #23
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    I thought Ok State started the change
    The change started when one single rule changed -- the OL downfield rule.

    I didn't understand the impact at the time. But when the 1-yard rule / 2.5-3 yard enforcement changed to a 3-yard rule/ 5-6 yard enforcement, the game was never going to be the same.

    Without that change, none of the basketball-on-grass / Malzahn / Chip Kelly / Okie State / Big 12-2 stuff works. At all.

    Personally, I don't enjoy a 45-38 game. Give me 24-17, or even 13-7, every time. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I predict that college football loses the OFC.

    Trouble there is that the OFC donates and shows up for games. Whereas, relatively speaking, the Gen-Xers and Millenials don't give a dime, and leave early if they show up at all.

    I'm not going to debate all the social reasons why those circumstances exist. My point is that they do exist.

    If the OFC collectively gets bored, quits cutting checks, and quits showing up, college football doesn't exist in anything approaching its current form.

    I'll grant you, I don't envy today's ADs. But they're going to have a choice to make.
    Last edited by 4Q Basket Case; September 11th, 2019 at 08:17 PM.
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  11. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    The change started when one single rule changed -- the OL downfield rule.

    I didn't understand the impact at the time, but when the 1-yard rule / 2.5-3 yard enforcement changed to a 3-yard rule/ 5-6 yard enforcement, the game was never going to be the same.

    None of the basketball-on-grass / Malzahn / Chip Kelly / Okie State / Big 12-2 stuff works without that change.

    Personally, I don't enjoy a 45-38 game. Give me 24-17, or even 13-7, every time. I know I'm in the minority, but I predict that college football loses the OFC.

    Trouble there is that the OFC donates and shows up for games. Whereas, relatively speaking, the Gen-Xers and Millenials don't give a dime, and leave early if they show up at all.

    I'm not going to debate all the social reasons why those circumstances exist. My point is that they do exist.

    If the OFC collectively gets bored, quits cutting checks, and quits showing up, college football doesn't exist in anything approaching its current form.

    I'll grant you, I don't envy today's ADs. But they're going to have a choice to make.
    You do realize Chip Kelly is 3-11 at UCLA? These Mickey Mouse offensive teams without defenses aren't winning NCs, nor are they really close to.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; September 11th, 2019 at 08:21 PM.
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  12. #25
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Kelly's Oregon teams played in a NC game, and maybe another playoff (not sure on that last part). Oklahoma still does play it, and has made two college playoffs. Clemson still does on offense, but has developed a D to go along with it, and we know that one all too well.

    But none of that is the point. The point is that the change in the OL downfield rule made that sort of "football" even remotely viable. Without it, none of those programs would be viable at the national level, and we would have won at least two more NCs.

    Maybe that's the reason the Presidents overruled the coaches when they (the coaches) Voted to go back to the 1-yard rule.
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  13. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    Kelly's Oregon teams played in a NC game, and maybe another playoff (not sure on that last part).
    In a BCS era when USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Washington were down as programs. And he lost in a snooze fest against the worst defense to win a SECCG since the 90's

    Helfrich coached the other game, but lets be honest the national championship was played in New Orleans that year

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    Oklahoma still does play it, and has made two college playoffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    .

    Yeah and they still lose games to teams with a defense. They figure to do the same thing this year. One issue with the BCS is that it was more possible for these teams to get in the NC. In the playoffs they usually are 1 and done



    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    Clemson still does on offense, but has developed a D to go along with it, and we know that one all too well.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post





    Clemson is more like us and UGA in that they chose the hybrid method because they know relying on gimmicks and no defense don't win championships. If you look they have had great defenses with a strong running game to complement that all star qb.


    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post



    But none of that is the point. The point is that the change in the OL downfield rule made that sort of "football" even remotely viable. Without it, none of those programs would be viable at the national level, and we would have won at least two more NCs.




    Maybe that's the reason the Presidents overruled the coaches when they (the coaches) Voted to go back to the 1-yard rule.


    Still who are winning and playing for NCs? This rule is like the Kiffin-Mcdaniels rule in the NFL in that it was designed to create parity but it has had little to no effect in the way they intended, in fact it has created less parity and more dominance by the "haves" over the "have nots"
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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