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  1. #27
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I just wish I knew what OFC means?

  2. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame deliveryman35's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    No.
    "Football is a hard game. These spread coaches forget that. Until good defenses remind them." Gene Stallings

  3. #29
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Football is the most cyclical of all the team sports !

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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtroadlizard View Post
    Football is the most cyclical of all the team sports !
    Yes it is...but this seems to be more than cyclical. With the rule changes regarding use of the head and limiting the violence....along with more sophisticated passing games and 7 on 7 practice and competition 6 months or more out of the year...we are seeing a definitive transformation. This is producing a more fast-paced and exciting game where athleticism trumps bulk. Consider that Bama's best producing players are small, fast and quick WR's.

    I hope to live another 20 years to see where this all goes...
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  5. #31
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by day-day View Post
    I just wish I knew what OFC means?
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  6. #32
    BamaNation All-American CB4's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide&True View Post
    I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don’t know about short attention spans, but we do know the move “open up the game” and increase scoring at both the NFL and college level has been with the intention of driving attendance and viewership. With more scoring, it is easier to engage the more novice fan. As example, my wife. Even after 35 years with me, and multiple years of explaining aspects of the game, she still doesn’t “get it”. (Okay....maybe she needs a better teacher) But she does understand “big plays and scoring”. It takes a greater understanding to appreciate many aspects of defensive play.

    Understand that I’m NOT saying if you don’t like defensive football, you don’t understand the game. I’m not saying that at all. What I am saying greater scoring is like “the whistles and bells” on slot machines in a casino. The novice gambler gravitates to the slot machines and not craps probably because it is easier “to get involved”.

    Networks aren’t worried about getting the eyes of folks like us that will watch Kent State play Toledo on a Thursday night and post religiously on football message boards. They have us. They want attract the viewer that might “take it or leave it” if it turned it a defensive snooze fest.

    You also have to take into consideration too that, in the late 1970’s and into the 1980’s, participation in middle school and high school football was beginning to “wane”. A more wide open game gave programs the opportunity to attract the athlete that would gravitate to possibly basketball or track. And many of those players want to play systems at the next level that gives them the opportunity to showcase those talents.

    But I do believe at some point “balance” has to be found. If college football as a whole becomes the Big XII with 4+ hour and 77-63 games consistently, then I’m of the opinion that those games will become so common place that viewers “disengage” just as much as 17-14 type games.

    And when that happens, the game will probably “cycle back” somewhat.
    Last edited by CB4; September 12th, 2019 at 08:03 AM.
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  7. #33
    BamaNation All-American mlh's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Padreruf View Post
    I hope to live another 20 years to see where this all goes...
    7 on 7, extended season, 20 games per year. 32 team playoff. Basically, basketball on grass.

  8. #34
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I do remember that after the 9-6 LSU/Bama game in 2011 how many people who weren't Bama fans talking about how boring that game was.

    It's kinda a shame because a purist can appreciate that a first down or a huge 3rd down stop or a punt that flips the field position in a game like that is like scoring a TD in a Big 12 game.

    But, as others have said, to attract a new fan you don't want them to watch a 9-6 defensive struggle.

  9. #35
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    I do remember that after the 9-6 LSU/Bama game in 2011 how many people who weren't Bama fans talking about how boring that game was.

    It's kinda a shame because a purist can appreciate that a first down or a huge 3rd down stop or a punt that flips the field position in a game like that is like scoring a TD in a Big 12 game.

    But, as others have said, to attract a new fan you don't want them to watch a 9-6 defensive struggle.

    Fans can learn to enjoy a defensive struggle - but it's on the commentariat to coach them up.

    Weird analogy, but fans who were attracted to high-flying, fast-based pro wrestling like Lucha Libre learned over time to enjoy slow-paced technical wrestling.

  10. #36
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonProf View Post
    Fans can learn to enjoy a defensive struggle - but it's on the commentariat to coach them up.

    Weird analogy, but fans who were attracted to high-flying, fast-based pro wrestling like Lucha Libre learned over time to enjoy slow-paced technical wrestling.
    To me, the best games are low scoring. In baseball, a 1-0 game is awesome. Every single pitch in that game mattered. In football, low scoring games mean that both teams continue to fight until the bitter end, on offense and defense - even special teams are critical to the outcome. Some of these games can feel like two mules fighting over a turnip, but I still prefer them to 45-42 type games, where defenses give up and the team with the ball last wins.

  11. #37
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    I don’t know about short attention spans, but we do know the move “open up the game” and increase scoring at both the NFL and college level has been with the intention of driving attendance and viewership. With more scoring, it is easier to engage the more novice fan. As example, my wife. Even after 35 years with me, and multiple years of explaining aspects of the game, she still doesn’t “get it”. (Okay....maybe she needs a better teacher) But she does understand “big plays and scoring”. It takes a greater understanding to appreciate many aspects of defensive play.

    .
    The NFL is not a high scoring sport. Just look at the Past 10 years of SBs and Conference championships


    SBs


    XLIV February 7, 2010 2009 New Orleans SaintsN
    (1, 1–0)
    31–17 Indianapolis ColtsA
    (4, 2–2)
    Sun Life Stadium (5)[n 13] Miami Gardens, Florida (10)[n 4] 74,059 [69][13]
    XLV February 6, 2011 2010 Green Bay PackersN
    (5, 4–1)
    31–25 Pittsburgh SteelersA
    (8, 6–2)
    Cowboys Stadium Arlington, Texas 103,219 [70][71][13]
    XLVI February 5, 2012 2011 New York GiantsN
    (5, 4–1)
    21–17 New England PatriotsA
    (7, 3–4)
    Lucas Oil Stadium Indianapolis, Indiana 68,658 [72][13][73][74]
    XLVII February 3, 2013 2012 Baltimore RavensA
    (2, 2–0)
    34–31 San Francisco 49ersN
    (6, 5–1)
    Mercedes-Benz Superdome (7)[n 7] New Orleans, Louisiana (10) 71,024 [75][13][73][76]
    XLVIII February 2, 2014 2013 Seattle SeahawksN
    (2, 1–1)
    43–8 Denver BroncosA
    (7, 2–5)
    MetLife Stadium East Rutherford, New Jersey 82,529 [77][13][78]
    XLIX February 1, 2015 2014 New England PatriotsA
    (8, 4–4)
    28–24 Seattle SeahawksN
    (3, 1–2)
    University of Phoenix Stadium (2)[n 19] Glendale, Arizona (3)[n 15] 70,288 [79][13][80][81]
    50
    [n 20]
    February 7, 2016 2015 Denver BroncosA
    (8, 3–5)
    24–10 Carolina PanthersN
    (2, 0–2)
    Levi's Stadium Santa Clara, California (2)[n 11] 71,088 [82][81][83][84]
    LI February 5, 2017 2016 New England PatriotsA
    (9, 5–4)
    34–28 (OT)[n 21] Atlanta FalconsN
    (2, 0–2)
    NRG Stadium (2)[n 18] Houston, Texas (3) 70,807 [87][81][83][84]
    LII February 4, 2018 2017 Philadelphia EaglesN
    (3, 1–2)
    41–33 New England PatriotsA
    (10, 5–5)
    U.S. Bank Stadium Minneapolis, Minnesota (2) 67,612 [88][89][90][91][92]
    LIII February 3, 2019 2018 New England PatriotsA
    (11, 6–5)
    13–3 Los Angeles RamsN
    (4, 1–3)


    AFCCG

    2009 2009–10 Indianapolis Colts (3) 30 New York Jets 17 Indianapolis, Indiana (2) Lucas Oil Stadium
    2010 2010–11 Pittsburgh Steelers (8) 24 New York Jets 19 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (11) Heinz Field (4)
    2011 2011–12 New England Patriots (7) 23 Baltimore Ravens 20 Foxborough, Massachusetts (4) Gillette Stadium (3)
    2012 2012–13 Baltimore Ravens (2) 28 New England Patriots 13 Foxborough, Massachusetts (5) Gillette Stadium (4)
    2013 2013–14 Denver Broncos (7) 26 New England Patriots 16 Denver, Colorado (6) Sports Authority Field at Mile High (2)
    2014 2014–15 New England Patriots (8) 45 Indianapolis Colts 7 Foxborough, Massachusetts (6) Gillette Stadium (5)
    2015 2015–16 Denver Broncos (8) 20 New England Patriots 18 Denver, Colorado (7) Sports Authority Field at Mile High (3)
    2016 2016–17 New England Patriots (9) 36 Pittsburgh Steelers 17 Foxborough, Massachusetts (7) Gillette Stadium (6)
    2017 2017–18 New England Patriots (10) 24 Jacksonville Jaguars 20 Foxborough, Massachusetts (8) Gillette Stadium (7)
    2018 2018–19 New England Patriots (11) 37a[›] Kansas City Chiefs 31 Kansas City, Missouri Arrowhead Stadium

    NFCCG

    In just about every single one of these championship games the Defense was the deciding factor.


    I think the issue with these takes is that stats very rarely back them up. Case and point, many people on here would go on and on about us being "pass heavy" under Kiffin, but when you looked at the stats you would find we were more 50/50 than we ever were with Mac and Nuss. But now people overinflate teams like the Kelly Oregons and the Mahomes Chiefs and believe they are the teams that dominate their respective leagues. But you find out these teams dont win championships. The same thing wins championships, the better defense and the team that limits their mistakes.



    Lets look at the playoffs


    Basically Bad teams get bashed, and great teams have normal scoring games. The only outliers are the 2015 Sugar Bowl, 2016 NCG, 2018 Rose Bowl, and 2019 NCG. But these high flying circus offenses are crumbling to good defenses.

    Now Lets look at the BCS National championship
    1998 January 4, 1999 1 Tennessee
    SEC Champions
    23-16 2 Florida State
    ACC Co-Champions
    1999 Fiesta Bowl Sun Devil Stadium
    Tempe, Arizona
    80,470
    1999 January 4, 2000 1 Florida State
    ACC Champions
    46-29 2 Virginia Tech
    Big East Champions
    2000 Sugar Bowl Louisiana Superdome
    New Orleans
    79,280
    2000 January 3, 2001 1 Oklahoma
    Big 12 Champions
    13-2 2 Florida State
    ACC Champions
    2001 Orange Bowl Pro Player Stadium
    Miami
    76,835
    2001 January 3, 2002 1 Miami (FL)
    Big East Champions
    37-14 2 Nebraska
    At-large
    2002 Rose Bowl Rose Bowl
    Pasadena, California
    93,781
    2002 January 3, 2003 2 Ohio State
    Big Ten Co-Champions
    31-24
    (2OT)
    1 Miami (FL)
    Big East Champions
    2003 Fiesta Bowl Sun Devil Stadium
    Tempe, Arizona
    77,502
    2003 January 4, 2004 2 LSU
    SEC Champions
    21-14 1 Oklahoma
    At-large
    2004 Sugar Bowl Louisiana Superdome
    New Orleans
    79,342
    2004 January 4, 2005 1 USC
    Pac-10 Champions
    55-19 2 Oklahoma
    Big 12 Champions
    2005 Orange Bowl Pro Player Stadium
    Miami Gardens, Florida
    77,912
    2005 January 4, 2006 2 Texas
    Big 12 Champions
    41-38 1 USC
    Pac-10 Champions
    2006 Rose Bowl Rose Bowl Stadium
    Pasadena, California
    93,986
    2006 January 8, 2007 2 Florida
    SEC Champions
    41-14 1 Ohio State
    Big Ten Champions
    2007 BCS National Championship Game University of Phoenix Stadium
    Glendale, Arizona
    74,628
    2007 January 7, 2008 2 LSU
    SEC Champions
    38-24 1 Ohio State
    Big Ten Champions
    2008 BCS National Championship Game Louisiana Superdome
    New Orleans
    79,651
    2008 January 8, 2009 2 Florida
    SEC Champions
    24-14 1 Oklahoma
    Big 12 Champions
    2009 BCS National Championship Game Dolphin Stadium
    Miami Gardens, Florida
    78,468
    2009 January 7, 2010 1 Alabama
    SEC Champions
    37-21 2 Texas
    Big 12 Champions
    2010 BCS National Championship Game Rose Bowl
    Pasadena, California
    94,906
    2010 January 10, 2011 1 Auburn
    SEC Champions
    22-19 2 Oregon
    Pac-10 Champions
    2011 BCS National Championship Game University of Phoenix Stadium
    Glendale, Arizona
    78,603
    2011 January 9, 2012 2 Alabama
    At-large
    21-0 1 LSU
    SEC Champions
    2012 BCS National Championship Game Mercedes-Benz Superdome
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    78,237
    2012 January 7, 2013 2 Alabama
    SEC Champions
    42-14 1 Notre Dame
    Independent
    2013 BCS National Championship Game Sun Life Stadium
    Miami Gardens, Florida
    80,120
    2013 January 6, 2014 1 Florida State
    ACC Champions
    34-31 2 Auburn
    SEC Champions
    2014 BCS National Championship Game Rose Bowl
    Pasadena, California

    The same thing, Bad teams get bashed, circus offenses dont win championships, and the better defenses usually wins the national championship


    I think you may can add 7 points to what you consider normal football, but really nothing has changed to the level it die when Miami, Florida, and Oklahoma changed football in the 80's and 90's. The same things still win championships. All these high scoring offenses are a waste of time to fully commit to, all it does is give another tool for the toolbox for the teams that actually win championships to use. At some point, someone is going to bring football back to a ground and pound game, and every have not team is going to go crazy about that "new" concept. But still defense, great recruits, and limited mistakes are what win championships, not mickey mouse schemes
    Last edited by 81usaf92; September 12th, 2019 at 09:45 AM.
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  12. #38
    BamaNation All-American Probius's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide&True View Post
    I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. Most people don't really understand the game and just want to see scoring. Most of my family members don't know a player unless he touches the ball. They know the QB, RB, and may a WR or two. They may know 1 or 2 defensive players if the announcers mention them during games often. So, they can only name maybe 5 or 6 players on their own team. They just want to see big scoring plays and they get bored easily if the defenses are playing well.
    “You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe deserve your love and affection.” - The Buddha

    Formerly Crimson Flyboy.

  13. #39
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide&True View Post
    I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    But Soccer seems popular. In fact it's probably the worlds most popular sport, yet there's very little scoring in a Soccer game.

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