Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)
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  1. #1
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I realize we have a generational player in Tua. I am completely amazed at his amazing throwing accuracy (which will make him millions in just a few months if he stays healthy). I also realize that we'll have a drop off next year and, if we are being completely honest, we may never see another QB at Bama like this again.

    Having offered that caveat, are we seeing a change in football here at Bama and really in college football in general??? There is no question that with the new safety rules that benefit the offense it is making the passing game easier because defenses can't hit QBs or WRs the way they used to be able to.

    Add to the fact that "basketball on grass" seems to be the direction of HS offenses and many offenses in college like the Big 12 schools. And then the most conservative offense in the country revolutionizes their offense and immediately it looks like they don't have a running game or defense and it just seems to fit the general direction that an old school offense that features a dominant OL that controls the game with "3 yards and a cloud of dust" is "going the way of the dodo."

    The recent discussion about our inability to run block because we pass block so much seems to fit this narrative as well.

    Is the mighty SEC that prides itself in defense going to become like the Big 12 eventually?

  2. #2
    BamaNation All-American mlh's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    I realize we have a generational player in Tua. I am completely amazed at his amazing throwing accuracy (which will make him millions in just a few months if he stays healthy). I also realize that we'll have a drop off next year and, if we are being completely honest, we may never see another QB at Bama like this again.

    Having offered that caveat, are we seeing a change in football here at Bama and really in college football in general??? There is no question that with the new safety rules that benefit the offense it is making the passing game easier because defenses can't hit QBs or WRs the way they used to be able to.

    Add to the fact that "basketball on grass" seems to be the direction of HS offenses and many offenses in college like the Big 12 schools. And then the most conservative offense in the country revolutionizes their offense and immediately it looks like they don't have a running game or defense and it just seems to fit the general direction that an old school offense that features a dominant OL that controls the game with "3 yards and a cloud of dust" is "going the way of the dodo."

    The recent discussion about our inability to run block because we pass block so much seems to fit this narrative as well.

    Is the mighty SEC that prides itself in defense going to become like the Big 12 eventually?
    To a degree, I think so. We'll probably remain stronger than the other conferences when it comes to defense, but there's no doubt the game is changing. Just look at the weekly scores for the high school games. Teams are scoring 40 and 50 points. The game is definitely changing.

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Sports always adjusts. At some point the defense will get too light and too fast so they can play vs the high speed offenses. . Then the tight end and fullback will make a resurgence. To overpower the defense.

    It’s a cycle.
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    Sports always adjusts. At some point the defense will get too light and too fast so they can play vs the high speed offenses. . Then the tight end and fullback will make a resurgence. To overpower the defense.

    It’s a cycle.
    I probably would have said the same thing a few years ago, but I don't know now. To play the Devil's Advocate, if this were true couldn't a team like Bama revert back to the single wing or wish bone and just completely dominate people today? If so, why wouldn't we?

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    BamaNation All-American CB4's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    I probably would have said the same thing a few years ago, but I don't know now. To play the Devil's Advocate, if this were true couldn't a team like Bama revert back to the single wing or wish bone and just completely dominate people today? If so, why wouldn't we?
    Probably not. Bottom line is that almost every highly regarded, highly recruited kid these days wants to know how, over the next 3-4 years, the program is going to improve their chances for the NFL. Going back to those types of offenses would most likely hamstring the program's ability to recruit at a high level. Additionally it seems that more NFL teams are incorporating RPO/Zone Read concepts into their packages. And it seems even the NFL is embracing the more wide open styles with Murray, Mayfield, and Lamar Jackson being products of those systems.

    I think the defensive switch has already happened. Remember when the defensive standard was "the shutout"? Then it became a great defense would hold opponents to "less than double digits " on average for a season. Now it seems youre considered a good defense holding opponent's to 20-25 points or less a game.

    If you think about, almost every change made in football for the last forty years seems to benefit the offense. And each of these changes has led to more offensive production and higher scoring. Why? Because it drives viewership. Even the most novice fan seems to find high scoring games "most exciting".

    I think the big question is when does fans interest (and viewership) begins to wane in terms of these types of games? As example, I use to love the NBA years ago. Today I will rarely watch an entire game. If I do, it is probably only the last few minutes. If that happens with college football, I'd expect rule changes made to give more of the game "back to the defense".
    Last edited by CB4; September 10th, 2019 at 02:24 PM.
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    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Early 90s Loyola Marymount

    2019 Virginia Cavaliers

    Things change


    It will cycle again.
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Probably not. Bottom line is that almost every highly regarded, highly recruited kid these days wants to know how, over the next 3-4 years, the program is going to improve their chances for the NFL. Going back to those types of offenses would most likely hamstring the program's ability to recruit at a high level. Additionally it seems that more NFL teams are incorporating RPO/Zone Read concepts into their packages. And it seems even the NFL is embracing the more wide open styles with Murray, Mayfield, and Lamar Jackson being products of those systems.

    I think the defensive switch has already happened. Remember when the defensive standard was "the shutout"? Then it became a great defense would hold opponents to "less than double digits " on average for a season. Now it seems youre considered a good defense holding opponent's to 20-25 points or less a game.

    If you think about, almost every change made in football for the last forty years seems to benefit the offense. And each of these changes has led to more offensive production and higher scoring. Why? Because it drives viewership. Even the most novice fan seems to find high scoring games "most exciting".

    I think the big question is when does fans interest (and viewership) begins to wane in terms of these types of games? As example, I use to love the NBA years ago. Today I will rarely watch an entire game. If I do, it is probably only the last few minutes. If that happens with college football, I'd expect rule changes made to give more of the game "back to the defense".
    You may be correct...and I'm sure the NFL influence with recruiting is huge.

    That said, just a few years ago the NFL was a running back league, yet, most schools dropped run-based offenses like hot potatoes.

    I guess time will tell. A school/coach will probably try to out-beef the others, but in just the last few years even CNS has slimmed his rosters down considerably. Who would have dreamed in 2009 our 2019 team would feature an offense like the one we have right now?

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    Big-12 All American owenfieldreams's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    As a life long fan of Big 8/12 football, I have witnessed the evolution. There was a time when the Big 8 was a smashmouth ground and pound league. I hate to say it but when Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as OC things changed. Now, it's a wide open 7/7 style that puts skill in space and stretches defenses to a point where it's almost impossible to defend.

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by owenfieldreams View Post
    As a life long fan of Big 8/12 football, I have witnessed the evolution. There was a time when the Big 8 was a smashmouth ground and pound league. I hate to say it but when Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as OC things changed. Now, it's a wide open 7/7 style that puts skill in space and stretches defenses to a point where it's almost impossible to defend.
    I thought Ok State started the change
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    Quote Originally Posted by owenfieldreams View Post
    As a life long fan of Big 8/12 football, I have witnessed the evolution. There was a time when the Big 8 was a smashmouth ground and pound league. I hate to say it but when Bob Stoops hired Mike Leach as OC things changed. Now, it's a wide open 7/7 style that puts skill in space and stretches defenses to a point where it's almost impossible to defend.
    The "watershed" moment will be when a team like OU can beat a team like Bama (with what is considered a pretty dominant defense) in a NC game.

    I know it's already happened in a few head to head games when the stakes weren't quite as high, but if great offensive teams start to regularly outscore teams with very good defenses in championship games that will probably be the point of no return.

    So far, defenses have proved to be the difference, but I seriously wonder if that will soon change.

  11. #11
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    When the game devolves fully into who scores last, which we saw a bit of with an SEC team Saturday night against a Big 12 team, then the evolution back to ball control offense will start up. Seriously. Michigan fancies themselves as a modern offense, but Shea Patterson just isn't that good (especially not as good as Denard Robinson was), but their defense only matches up with a ball control offense like Army. Time of possession flips seriously in favor of Army, and you get a game that Michigan was lucky to survive.

    Only an Army can make this happen right now. They have the discipline, the strength man-for-man, and the head coaching mentality to make it real. I'm afraid even Alabama would have a hard time with this, using our skeleton crew of 2nd and 3rd string defenders, due to all the NFL defections and injuries that plague us on that side of the ball. Sure, we can score, and in bunches, and fast. But, can't score on offense if you don't have the ball. If the opponent offense doesn't turn it over, and manages 3.4 yards per play, your offense won't see the field much. Don't let them score first!

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    BamaNation All-American mlh's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    I'm just waiting to see who the first school is to score 100 on someone. OU had 70 last week and probably could've score in the triple digits if they'd wanted to.

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    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

    If you go back to Coach Bryant's arrival at Alabama, the trend in college football was primarily based on the running game. in the late 1960's the passing game overtook the run game, but this only lasted a couple of years. Then teams like OU and Alabama adopted the wishbone and pounded teams into submission. There was a constant during these times, most all college players were white.

    When the racial barriers broke down the black athletes, who had previously only played at all black colleges, were now going to programs in the major conferences. They were superior in speed, strength and agility, especially at the skilled positions. Teams took advantage of this with power running and sophisticated passing schemes. This of course has evolved at the high school and college level into the HUNH, RPO and spread offenses which takes advantage of the black skilled players. As someone mentioned in a prior post, these type offenses are now being used in the NFL which attracts the black athlete.
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