Are We Witnessing a Fundamental Shift in Football (Offense and Defense Style)

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
The game has changed because people like Spurrier found a way to utilize talent in a way that killed these dinosaur program's style of playing. We are more going to a hybrid of both old school and new school way of thinking over one side or the other.
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Nov 8, 2004
9,569
12,865
237
Tuscaloosa
I thought Ok State started the change ;)
The change started when one single rule changed -- the OL downfield rule.

I didn't understand the impact at the time. But when the 1-yard rule / 2.5-3 yard enforcement changed to a 3-yard rule/ 5-6 yard enforcement, the game was never going to be the same.

Without that change, none of the basketball-on-grass / Malzahn / Chip Kelly / Okie State / Big 12-2 stuff works. At all.

Personally, I don't enjoy a 45-38 game. Give me 24-17, or even 13-7, every time. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I predict that college football loses the OFC.

Trouble there is that the OFC donates and shows up for games. Whereas, relatively speaking, the Gen-Xers and Millenials don't give a dime, and leave early if they show up at all.

I'm not going to debate all the social reasons why those circumstances exist. My point is that they do exist.

If the OFC collectively gets bored, quits cutting checks, and quits showing up, college football doesn't exist in anything approaching its current form.

I'll grant you, I don't envy today's ADs. But they're going to have a choice to make.
 
Last edited:

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
The change started when one single rule changed -- the OL downfield rule.

I didn't understand the impact at the time, but when the 1-yard rule / 2.5-3 yard enforcement changed to a 3-yard rule/ 5-6 yard enforcement, the game was never going to be the same.

None of the basketball-on-grass / Malzahn / Chip Kelly / Okie State / Big 12-2 stuff works without that change.

Personally, I don't enjoy a 45-38 game. Give me 24-17, or even 13-7, every time. I know I'm in the minority, but I predict that college football loses the OFC.

Trouble there is that the OFC donates and shows up for games. Whereas, relatively speaking, the Gen-Xers and Millenials don't give a dime, and leave early if they show up at all.

I'm not going to debate all the social reasons why those circumstances exist. My point is that they do exist.

If the OFC collectively gets bored, quits cutting checks, and quits showing up, college football doesn't exist in anything approaching its current form.

I'll grant you, I don't envy today's ADs. But they're going to have a choice to make.
You do realize Chip Kelly is 3-11 at UCLA? These Mickey Mouse offensive teams without defenses aren't winning NCs, nor are they really close to.
 
Last edited:

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Nov 8, 2004
9,569
12,865
237
Tuscaloosa
Kelly's Oregon teams played in a NC game, and maybe another playoff (not sure on that last part). Oklahoma still does play it, and has made two college playoffs. Clemson still does on offense, but has developed a D to go along with it, and we know that one all too well.

But none of that is the point. The point is that the change in the OL downfield rule made that sort of "football" even remotely viable. Without it, none of those programs would be viable at the national level, and we would have won at least two more NCs.

Maybe that's the reason the Presidents overruled the coaches when they (the coaches) Voted to go back to the 1-yard rule.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
Kelly's Oregon teams played in a NC game, and maybe another playoff (not sure on that last part).
In a BCS era when USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Washington were down as programs. And he lost in a snooze fest against the worst defense to win a SECCG since the 90's

Helfrich coached the other game, but lets be honest the national championship was played in New Orleans that year

Oklahoma still does play it, and has made two college playoffs.

Yeah and they still lose games to teams with a defense. They figure to do the same thing this year. One issue with the BCS is that it was more possible for these teams to get in the NC. In the playoffs they usually are 1 and done



Clemson still does on offense, but has developed a D to go along with it, and we know that one all too well.


Clemson is more like us and UGA in that they chose the hybrid method because they know relying on gimmicks and no defense don't win championships. If you look they have had great defenses with a strong running game to complement that all star qb.





But none of that is the point. The point is that the change in the OL downfield rule made that sort of "football" even remotely viable. Without it, none of those programs would be viable at the national level, and we would have won at least two more NCs.




Maybe that's the reason the Presidents overruled the coaches when they (the coaches) Voted to go back to the 1-yard rule.


Still who are winning and playing for NCs? This rule is like the Kiffin-Mcdaniels rule in the NFL in that it was designed to create parity but it has had little to no effect in the way they intended, in fact it has created less parity and more dominance by the "haves" over the "have nots"
 

Padreruf

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2001
8,688
12,229
287
73
Charleston, South Carolina
Football is the most cyclical of all the team sports !
Yes it is...but this seems to be more than cyclical. With the rule changes regarding use of the head and limiting the violence....along with more sophisticated passing games and 7 on 7 practice and competition 6 months or more out of the year...we are seeing a definitive transformation. This is producing a more fast-paced and exciting game where athleticism trumps bulk. Consider that Bama's best producing players are small, fast and quick WR's.

I hope to live another 20 years to see where this all goes...
 

CB4

Hall of Fame
Aug 8, 2011
9,457
13,445
187
Birmingham, AL
I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t know about short attention spans, but we do know the move “open up the game” and increase scoring at both the NFL and college level has been with the intention of driving attendance and viewership. With more scoring, it is easier to engage the more novice fan. As example, my wife. Even after 35 years with me, and multiple years of explaining aspects of the game, she still doesn’t “get it”. (Okay....maybe she needs a better teacher) But she does understand “big plays and scoring”. It takes a greater understanding to appreciate many aspects of defensive play.

Understand that I’m NOT saying if you don’t like defensive football, you don’t understand the game. I’m not saying that at all. What I am saying greater scoring is like “the whistles and bells” on slot machines in a casino. The novice gambler gravitates to the slot machines and not craps probably because it is easier “to get involved”.

Networks aren’t worried about getting the eyes of folks like us that will watch Kent State play Toledo on a Thursday night and post religiously on football message boards. They have us. They want attract the viewer that might “take it or leave it” if it turned it a defensive snooze fest.

You also have to take into consideration too that, in the late 1970’s and into the 1980’s, participation in middle school and high school football was beginning to “wane”. A more wide open game gave programs the opportunity to attract the athlete that would gravitate to possibly basketball or track. And many of those players want to play systems at the next level that gives them the opportunity to showcase those talents.

But I do believe at some point “balance” has to be found. If college football as a whole becomes the Big XII with 4+ hour and 77-63 games consistently, then I’m of the opinion that those games will become so common place that viewers “disengage” just as much as 17-14 type games.

And when that happens, the game will probably “cycle back” somewhat.
 
Last edited:

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,947
15,954
282
Boone, NC
I do remember that after the 9-6 LSU/Bama game in 2011 how many people who weren't Bama fans talking about how boring that game was.

It's kinda a shame because a purist can appreciate that a first down or a huge 3rd down stop or a punt that flips the field position in a game like that is like scoring a TD in a Big 12 game.

But, as others have said, to attract a new fan you don't want them to watch a 9-6 defensive struggle.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
I do remember that after the 9-6 LSU/Bama game in 2011 how many people who weren't Bama fans talking about how boring that game was.

It's kinda a shame because a purist can appreciate that a first down or a huge 3rd down stop or a punt that flips the field position in a game like that is like scoring a TD in a Big 12 game.

But, as others have said, to attract a new fan you don't want them to watch a 9-6 defensive struggle.

Fans can learn to enjoy a defensive struggle - but it's on the commentariat to coach them up.

Weird analogy, but fans who were attracted to high-flying, fast-based pro wrestling like Lucha Libre learned over time to enjoy slow-paced technical wrestling.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,502
46,845
187
Fans can learn to enjoy a defensive struggle - but it's on the commentariat to coach them up.

Weird analogy, but fans who were attracted to high-flying, fast-based pro wrestling like Lucha Libre learned over time to enjoy slow-paced technical wrestling.
To me, the best games are low scoring. In baseball, a 1-0 game is awesome. Every single pitch in that game mattered. In football, low scoring games mean that both teams continue to fight until the bitter end, on offense and defense - even special teams are critical to the outcome. Some of these games can feel like two mules fighting over a turnip, but I still prefer them to 45-42 type games, where defenses give up and the team with the ball last wins.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
I don’t know about short attention spans, but we do know the move “open up the game” and increase scoring at both the NFL and college level has been with the intention of driving attendance and viewership. With more scoring, it is easier to engage the more novice fan. As example, my wife. Even after 35 years with me, and multiple years of explaining aspects of the game, she still doesn’t “get it”. (Okay....maybe she needs a better teacher) But she does understand “big plays and scoring”. It takes a greater understanding to appreciate many aspects of defensive play.

.
The NFL is not a high scoring sport. Just look at the Past 10 years of SBs and Conference championships


SBs


XLIVFebruary 7, 2010 2009New Orleans Saints[SUP]N[/SUP]
(1, 1–0)
31–17Indianapolis Colts[SUP]A[/SUP]
(4, 2–2)
Sun Life Stadium (5)[SUP][n 13][/SUP]Miami Gardens, Florida (10)[SUP][n 4][/SUP]74,059[SUP][69][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP]
XLVFebruary 6, 2011 2010Green Bay Packers[SUP]N[/SUP]
(5, 4–1)
31–25Pittsburgh Steelers[SUP]A[/SUP]
(8, 6–2)
Cowboys StadiumArlington, Texas103,219[SUP][70][/SUP][SUP][71][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP]
XLVIFebruary 5, 2012 2011New York Giants[SUP]N[/SUP]
(5, 4–1)
21–17New England Patriots[SUP]A[/SUP]
(7, 3–4)
Lucas Oil StadiumIndianapolis, Indiana68,658[SUP][72][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][73][/SUP][SUP][74][/SUP]
XLVIIFebruary 3, 2013 2012Baltimore Ravens[SUP]A[/SUP]
(2, 2–0)
34–31San Francisco 49ers[SUP]N[/SUP]
(6, 5–1)
Mercedes-Benz Superdome (7)[SUP][n 7][/SUP]New Orleans, Louisiana (10)71,024[SUP][75][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][73][/SUP][SUP][76][/SUP]
XLVIIIFebruary 2, 2014 2013Seattle Seahawks[SUP]N[/SUP]
(2, 1–1)
43–8Denver Broncos[SUP]A[/SUP]
(7, 2–5)
MetLife StadiumEast Rutherford, New Jersey82,529[SUP][77][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][78][/SUP]
XLIXFebruary 1, 2015 2014New England Patriots[SUP]A[/SUP]
(8, 4–4)
28–24Seattle Seahawks[SUP]N[/SUP]
(3, 1–2)
University of Phoenix Stadium (2)[SUP][n 19][/SUP]Glendale, Arizona (3)[SUP][n 15][/SUP]70,288[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][80][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP]
50
[SUP][n 20][/SUP]
February 7, 2016 2015Denver Broncos[SUP]A[/SUP]
(8, 3–5)
24–10Carolina Panthers[SUP]N[/SUP]
(2, 0–2)
Levi's StadiumSanta Clara, California (2)[SUP][n 11][/SUP]71,088[SUP][82][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][83][/SUP][SUP][84][/SUP]
LIFebruary 5, 2017 2016New England Patriots[SUP]A[/SUP]
(9, 5–4)
34–28 (OT)[SUP][n 21][/SUP]Atlanta Falcons[SUP]N[/SUP]
(2, 0–2)
NRG Stadium (2)[SUP][n 18][/SUP]Houston, Texas (3)70,807[SUP][87][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][83][/SUP][SUP][84][/SUP]
LIIFebruary 4, 2018 2017Philadelphia Eagles[SUP]N[/SUP]
(3, 1–2)
41–33New England Patriots[SUP]A[/SUP]
(10, 5–5)
U.S. Bank StadiumMinneapolis, Minnesota (2)67,612[SUP][88][/SUP][SUP][89][/SUP][SUP][90][/SUP][SUP][91][/SUP][SUP][92][/SUP]
LIIIFebruary 3, 2019 2018New England Patriots[SUP]A[/SUP]
(11, 6–5)
13–3Los Angeles Rams[SUP]N[/SUP]
(4, 1–3)


AFCCG

20092009–10Indianapolis Colts (3)30New York Jets17Indianapolis, Indiana (2)Lucas Oil Stadium
20102010–11Pittsburgh Steelers (8)24New York Jets19Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (11)Heinz Field (4)
20112011–12New England Patriots (7)23Baltimore Ravens20Foxborough, Massachusetts (4)Gillette Stadium (3)
20122012–13Baltimore Ravens (2)28New England Patriots13Foxborough, Massachusetts (5)Gillette Stadium (4)
20132013–14Denver Broncos (7)26New England Patriots16Denver, Colorado (6)Sports Authority Field at Mile High (2)
20142014–15New England Patriots (8)45Indianapolis Colts7Foxborough, Massachusetts (6)Gillette Stadium (5)
20152015–16Denver Broncos (8)20New England Patriots18Denver, Colorado (7)Sports Authority Field at Mile High (3)
20162016–17New England Patriots (9)36Pittsburgh Steelers17Foxborough, Massachusetts (7)Gillette Stadium (6)
20172017–18New England Patriots (10)24Jacksonville Jaguars20Foxborough, Massachusetts (8)Gillette Stadium (7)
20182018–19New England Patriots (11)37[SUP]a[›][/SUP]Kansas City Chiefs31Kansas City, MissouriArrowhead Stadium

NFCCG

In just about every single one of these championship games the Defense was the deciding factor.


I think the issue with these takes is that stats very rarely back them up. Case and point, many people on here would go on and on about us being "pass heavy" under Kiffin, but when you looked at the stats you would find we were more 50/50 than we ever were with Mac and Nuss. But now people overinflate teams like the Kelly Oregons and the Mahomes Chiefs and believe they are the teams that dominate their respective leagues. But you find out these teams dont win championships. The same thing wins championships, the better defense and the team that limits their mistakes.



Lets look at the playoffs


Basically Bad teams get bashed, and great teams have normal scoring games. The only outliers are the 2015 Sugar Bowl, 2016 NCG, 2018 Rose Bowl, and 2019 NCG. But these high flying circus offenses are crumbling to good defenses.

Now Lets look at the BCS National championship
1998January 4, 19991 Tennessee
SEC Champions
23-162 Florida State
ACC Co-Champions
1999 Fiesta BowlSun Devil Stadium
Tempe, Arizona
80,470
1999January 4, 20001 Florida State
ACC Champions
46-292 Virginia Tech
Big East Champions
2000 Sugar BowlLouisiana Superdome
New Orleans
79,280
2000January 3, 20011 Oklahoma
Big 12 Champions
13-22 Florida State
ACC Champions
2001 Orange BowlPro Player Stadium
Miami
76,835
2001January 3, 20021 Miami (FL)
Big East Champions
37-142 Nebraska
At-large
2002 Rose BowlRose Bowl
Pasadena, California
93,781
2002January 3, 20032 Ohio State
Big Ten Co-Champions
31-24
(2OT)
1 Miami (FL)
Big East Champions
2003 Fiesta BowlSun Devil Stadium
Tempe, Arizona
77,502
2003January 4, 20042 LSU
SEC Champions
21-141 Oklahoma
At-large
2004 Sugar BowlLouisiana Superdome
New Orleans
79,342
2004January 4, 20051 USC
Pac-10 Champions
55-192 Oklahoma
Big 12 Champions
2005 Orange BowlPro Player Stadium
Miami Gardens, Florida
77,912
2005January 4, 20062 Texas
Big 12 Champions
41-381 USC
Pac-10 Champions
2006 Rose BowlRose Bowl Stadium
Pasadena, California
93,986
2006January 8, 20072 Florida
SEC Champions
41-141 Ohio State
Big Ten Champions
2007 BCS National Championship GameUniversity of Phoenix Stadium
Glendale, Arizona
74,628
2007January 7, 20082 LSU
SEC Champions
38-241 Ohio State
Big Ten Champions
2008 BCS National Championship GameLouisiana Superdome
New Orleans
79,651
2008January 8, 20092 Florida
SEC Champions
24-141 Oklahoma
Big 12 Champions
2009 BCS National Championship GameDolphin Stadium
Miami Gardens, Florida
78,468
2009January 7, 20101 Alabama
SEC Champions
37-212 Texas
Big 12 Champions
2010 BCS National Championship GameRose Bowl
Pasadena, California
94,906
2010January 10, 20111 Auburn
SEC Champions
22-192 Oregon
Pac-10 Champions
2011 BCS National Championship GameUniversity of Phoenix Stadium
Glendale, Arizona
78,603
2011January 9, 20122 Alabama
At-large
21-01 LSU
SEC Champions
2012 BCS National Championship GameMercedes-Benz Superdome
New Orleans, Louisiana
78,237
2012January 7, 20132 Alabama
SEC Champions
42-141 Notre Dame
Independent
2013 BCS National Championship GameSun Life Stadium
Miami Gardens, Florida
80,120
2013January 6, 20141 Florida State
ACC Champions
34-312 Auburn
SEC Champions
2014 BCS National Championship GameRose Bowl
Pasadena, California

The same thing, Bad teams get bashed, circus offenses dont win championships, and the better defenses usually wins the national championship


I think you may can add 7 points to what you consider normal football, but really nothing has changed to the level it die when Miami, Florida, and Oklahoma changed football in the 80's and 90's. The same things still win championships. All these high scoring offenses are a waste of time to fully commit to, all it does is give another tool for the toolbox for the teams that actually win championships to use. At some point, someone is going to bring football back to a ground and pound game, and every have not team is going to go crazy about that "new" concept. But still defense, great recruits, and limited mistakes are what win championships, not mickey mouse schemes
 
Last edited:

Probius

Hall of Fame
Mar 19, 2004
6,773
2,175
287
43
Birmingham, Alabama
I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Most people don't really understand the game and just want to see scoring. Most of my family members don't know a player unless he touches the ball. They know the QB, RB, and may a WR or two. They may know 1 or 2 defensive players if the announcers mention them during games often. So, they can only name maybe 5 or 6 players on their own team. They just want to see big scoring plays and they get bored easily if the defenses are playing well.
 

PA Tide Fan

All-American
Dec 11, 2014
4,442
3,058
187
Lancaster, PA
I have a theory that football and other sports are evolving due to people’s short attention span. People today would be bored to tears with the wishbone and how long it takes to score with the running game as the mainstay. Unfortunately, defenses are also suffering for the same insatiable need for more scores and exciting moments during a game. Just to be clear....I am not that way. I love to see good ball control on offense and a bad-to-the-bone defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But Soccer seems popular. In fact it's probably the worlds most popular sport, yet there's very little scoring in a Soccer game.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.