Every student that represents the school in some way outside the classroom would also be labor. Theatre. Band. Debate.
It’s a can of worms
It’s a can of worms
Link: S. Carolina to consider Fair Pay For Pay to play type bill (ESPN Article)
- Thread starter Bamabuzzard
- Start date
Then perhaps this will be the catalyst to end the ridiculous notion that all athletes are equal in value...
I admit that college football is at the precipice of amateur athletics. That's clear. That's also why college sports have things like eligibility restrictions. If they make them semi-pros, why can't Leigh Tiffin still be kicking for Alabama? Unless of course Auburn offered him more and then he could go play for them.
Even if you somehow kept Pandora's Box shut, and kept this at endorsements, you'd still allow for things like Nike offering every Oregon football commit a million dollar a year endorsement deal. Something which Phil Knight can afford but Alabama can't really afford by the way. It would still amount free agency though, since programs able to whip up the biggest endorsement packages would land the biggest recruits.
This would topple college athletics as we know it, and for the record there is no reason to believe Alabama would be left standing at the top of the pile of rubble. Alabama is not a rich state. I believe there are things that can be done to improve the welfare of the players, I advocated for the stipend. I would support something like perhaps tying some likeness revenue to things like automatic purchasing of insurance for the players, or things like that. But, I do firmly believe that once you say just pay them for playing football, the whole system will crumble. If we're left with semi-pro football, all we get is another AAFL, or WFL, where even the top athletes really aren't worth that much either.
I think if people want to move things in the right direction, in a more pro player direction, they need to find the right things to chip away at. Get rid of the programs losing millions of dollars a year (like UAB), change Title IX. Do some of the stuff to free up resources but if you just blow the whole thing up we're going to be left with one big mess. I can't help but believe that's what some people want though, how many people outside the state want to keep seeing Alabama win anyway?
Players should be paid but within reason. I don’t believe in lucrative deals, I’m more in favor of a per diem in which it covers for the bills (phone, car payment, etc) and food expenses (again within reason) that they are unable to pay due to being a full time athlete. I think it should be a calculated number that the NCAA monitors and should be based on cost of living.
Aren’t they already getting that in the form of a stipend for the past few years?
Two sides to this argument...
Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud... BUT...
IMO: Pay for Play is a terrible idea.
Question??? What happens when the kids you are paying to play, under perform?
I think most of us have seen players who I would describe as a BUST. Ya gonna fire em?
Teams that have performed well might can pay well, What about the teams who play poorly?
I could see a lot of smaller market teams going out of business.
Pay em and somebody will try to Unionize them. Is all that good for football?
(That wouldn't be good for football.)
I should again remind everyone that this is my opinion.
Probably holes in my reasoning you could drive a Caddy thru.
Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud... BUT...
IMO: Pay for Play is a terrible idea.
Question??? What happens when the kids you are paying to play, under perform?
I think most of us have seen players who I would describe as a BUST. Ya gonna fire em?
Teams that have performed well might can pay well, What about the teams who play poorly?
I could see a lot of smaller market teams going out of business.
Pay em and somebody will try to Unionize them. Is all that good for football?
(That wouldn't be good for football.)
I should again remind everyone that this is my opinion.
Probably holes in my reasoning you could drive a Caddy thru.
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Let the NFL set up a minor league system for kids right out of high school. Have a 45 round draft each year and stock up their system
Whoever is left can play college ball.
Kids can sign and go play in Paducah KY or Peoria IL or Frisco TX. And work their way up to the NFL.
That way those that want money can go get it. Those that want to play for the University can as well.
But to turn the P5 conferences into a pro-league isn’t the answer
Whoever is left can play college ball.
Kids can sign and go play in Paducah KY or Peoria IL or Frisco TX. And work their way up to the NFL.
That way those that want money can go get it. Those that want to play for the University can as well.
But to turn the P5 conferences into a pro-league isn’t the answer
Every one of us should be allowed to earn whatever the market will bear for our services. That includes college athletes. For those who suggest that these guys already get enough. Sounds like envy to me. If you already get enough compensation but had a chance to get much more, you wouldn't hesitate and would sue anyone who got in the way of that. But these guys already get enough so they should not be allowed to get more because their success might hurt the sport that is making $$BILLIONS$$ off of their blood, sweat and tears? Or because we, the fans, want to preserve something that doesn't really exist, and hasn't in my lifetime (and I am not young).
Frankly, I cannot see why any American would oppose this. This is as American an ideal as any that exists.
Frankly, I cannot see why any American would oppose this. This is as American an ideal as any that exists.
Except that if college football disappeared then the market goes away.
That’s the point.
This isn’t their career, yet. This is a college job that they are paid to do through scholarship and stipend. That’s what the market bears.
They can quit anytime after their junior year to pursue that career.
That is American.
Russia and China would have a completely different plan for them, I assure you.
is this a political game to help recruiting for these schools ,,no matter what happens to the bill.
They can always promise kids this is coming.
He said SOME of that.
Before you get defensive, make sure you're reading the original post correctly.
Of course they're not, but the principal difference between college athletics and free-market professional sports is Title IX and what it will allow.
It's impossible to talk about this issue without also pulling politics into it but I've got a few observations on this:
1) Once California decided it was going to do it, it was over right then. As California goes, so goes America, in just about all things, and I hate it.
2) If we're going to let athletes capitalize on their image/name while in college, then anything the NCAA has legalized lately over the cost of tuition (i.e., stipends) needs to go away.
Speaking specifically of No. 2, on the money side, college football isn't the NFL; we don't have "owners" at this level. Our "owners" are taxpayers (or churches, or private foundations). Overall, we're not as financially nimble as pro sports teams are. Pro sports teams don't have affiliated "remora programs" out there sucking up revenue, and they don't have a billionaire at the helm who can just write a bigger check if need be. But moreover, it doesn't take long for universities to outspend their revenue stream. As soon as you deem the players as employees, they can unionize and collectively bargain. As fans, you might think you want that, but you don't. Especially if what comes out of those negotiations allows players to seek contracts, signing bonuses, etc., because then it's going to be an arms race like you've never seen to keep up with the growth in those contracts, and ESPECIALLY if the schools have to maintain strict Title IX compliance at the same time. The only way for the school to get out of that is to drop stipends for all, and let athletes negotiate endorsement deals separately without it affecting their eligibility. That way the cost is borne by a third party -- but then you will, and I mean will -- run into cases down the road where the "boss" (which is now the shoe company or the video game company or what have you) advises a player to sit out certain games or ask for workload management from their coaching staffs. And, the lesser players lose out.
For Alabama fans specifically, I don't know what the eventual impact would be on the gameday experience but I would expect costs to explode upward if the players are deemed employees. The reason the college model works right now for 130 programs is the backbone theory has always been that colleges were preparing the athletes for a time, post-graduation, where they would make money. Same as how the schools prepared accountants and teachers. The fact the money happens to be bigger in sports isn't really relevant to the model, but it's been made relevant by activists who don't want to think any deeper than the first couple of layers of what is about a thirty-layer problem. I also grow tired of the argument that "fans don't have any say in this; this is about the kids' livelihoods." No, we very much have a say in it. We're the reason the programs have the money on hand they have right now. If we weren't as interested in the sport as we are, there would be nothing to sell. To further that point, we were sold something (i.e., the game played and structured a certain way) and we bought it, so if you suddenly want to change it, you need our OK if you want us to keep paying. The number of players who never extend their career beyond college, but used the scholarships we funded to launch their careers in other businesses, did get a tangible benefit from a college education and to make this all about performance-based pay is disingenuous. The financial system that supports amateur sports has always been benchmarked by how well it put aside the individual to lift up programs full of individuals as a whole. And that brings me to this:
3. The concept of "amateurism" has become anathema all of a sudden, and that's sad.
The one thing that could end college sports as we know it would be losing containment on costs. Be careful what you wish for.
You are conflating two different things.
One is the concept of being free to earn what ever you are capable of earning, which I agree with. The other is the concept that a particular entity should be obligated in some way to provide specific compensation or that they should be disallowed from having specific criteria for people they deal with. This I do not agree with.
The former is a free market principle, the latter is not. I can seek what ever compensation I want, no one, however is actually obligated to provide it to me! So, if a company wishes to have unpaid interns, and unpaid interns wish to work under those circumstance, that's the free market at work. Two entities acting in their own interest freely. Make no mistake, what we are talking about is a third party imposing its will.
Amateur athletics have never in any way been compulsory. To tell an amateur athletic entity that they are under some sort of obligation to do this or that, is to violate their own basic rights and freedoms. Every single college football player is free to seek work (I think a lot of people also understate or misunderstand the extent to which players can do that, heck last year's Heisman winner was a millionaire professional baseball player), they are free to seek endorsements, they are free to do what ever they want legally! They simply might jeopardize their eligibility! That's all there is to it, but no one really has the right to come in and tell either party what they have to do in a voluntary arrangement.
Remember, there is nothing at all stopping someone from making their own pro league and paying college players what ever they want. Well, other than the fact that it isn't financially sustainable that is and semi-pro leagues drop like flies... The truth is this is not a logical argument that is being waged, because I doubt most people arguing for paying players actually realize many college football programs lose money, or that virtually every athletic department loses money. They just imagine there's all this money laying around being scooped up by someone, somewhere, and don't realize that pretty much every cent of revenue (not really profit since almost all operate at a loss, even when you include donations) the school makes it put right back into the athletic department.
Who is making billions? The schools aren't, in fact they have received billions in subsidies just to keep their athletic departments going...
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Question:
I’ve seen $90k floated around for how much CF players “make” with scholarships, stipends, etc.
Would giving them a monthly “allowance” to cover expenses not covered by their scholarship fix this?
I’ve seen social media posts about kids not eating, not having enough money for gas, etc. I’m thinking you could give them a living expense especially in the non school months to help cover costs without them losing eligibility.
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I’ve seen $90k floated around for how much CF players “make” with scholarships, stipends, etc.
Would giving them a monthly “allowance” to cover expenses not covered by their scholarship fix this?
I’ve seen social media posts about kids not eating, not having enough money for gas, etc. I’m thinking you could give them a living expense especially in the non school months to help cover costs without them losing eligibility.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you are going to pay them, then you can’t control the flow of the payments. They aren’t minors.
The best solve is to open up the NFL to 18 year olds. If their talent allows them to get paid, then let the NFL pay them. Otherwise, they can play college ball until they are ready. Make a players commitment expire on January 31st each year. If the player falls behind 15+ hours in school they become ineligible to play until they are caught up
When their annual scholarship expires on January 31st they can move to another school or turn pro.
They can sign a new scholarship early (before deadline)
Force the NFL to build a minor league system.
And make it illegal for colleges to sell anything with a player’s likeness, name, or quotes.
The best solve is to open up the NFL to 18 year olds. If their talent allows them to get paid, then let the NFL pay them. Otherwise, they can play college ball until they are ready. Make a players commitment expire on January 31st each year. If the player falls behind 15+ hours in school they become ineligible to play until they are caught up
When their annual scholarship expires on January 31st they can move to another school or turn pro.
They can sign a new scholarship early (before deadline)
Force the NFL to build a minor league system.
And make it illegal for colleges to sell anything with a player’s likeness, name, or quotes.
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College kids moved away from this train of thought years ago because Title IX forced them to do so. They now want to be free to make money from their name and likeness. It costs the schools nothing. The money comes from the businesses willing to pay them.
This also takes Title IX completely out of the picture since the pay comes from entities other than the schools. All athletes should be allowed to seek these contracts, men and women, based on their personal marketability.
Why would anyone oppose this?
Sorry, I don’t buy this not eating stuff. Every college has a dinning hall that is probably paid for through their athletic scholarship. If they choose to eat elsewhere then that is on them.
What I mean is during the non school days, holiday breaks, summer, etc.
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So does the IRS get a taste of these kids’ stipends? And to that point are they state employees, receiving state money from the university?
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