Question: How should a team handle Clemson's 3-2-6 defense

davefrat · Sep 17, 2019

I agree with those who say that the 3-2-6 is designed for us.

Dabo and Brent know they can beat everyone on their current schedule using that defense, which appears to be designed to shut down exactly the kind of offense we run.

In essence, they’re installing their Bama defensive game plan over the course of a season rather than over a couple weeks.

davefrat · Sep 17, 2019

editder said:
He's not that accurate a passer; he just throws the ball up in the air, and those 6' 4" receivers are able to grab it.

I’ve noticed that Lawrence gets a lot of the short passes over the middle batted down and it looks like it’s because he is literally throwing the ball down rather than up because of his height.

JustNeedMe81 · Sep 17, 2019

Clemson runs 4-1-6 dime defense. 2 OLB are replaced by two extra CBs to counter 4 wide set.
Next, they use 3-2-6 for third down alignment. They use Strong safety to bring down to the box to spy or blitz. They would use Mike and Jack LBs on line of scrimmage to confuse QBs and OL in calling wrong protection.

How do we counter 4-1-6 and 3-2-6 defense?

Easy. With eight defensive players lining up near the line of scrimmage and only three in the secondary, it leaves areas open for receivers to catch passes. Tua would have to make quick throws and get ball in the exploited area. Think Dan Marino's game against Bears in 1985 season. Find the hole in Clemson's 4-1-6 and 3-2-6 defense and get the ball in the spot quick. We've seen few wrinkles in the offense in last two weeks. I wouldn't be shocked if we expanded on that down the road. We can take advantage of their aggressive blitizes by running outside runs, quick screen passes, WR motion. We have to come up with something that forces Clemson to show their hand on defense.

We have the personnel to expose their defense.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 17, 2019

JustNeedMe81 said:
Clemson runs 4-1-6 dime defense. 2 OLB are replaced by two extra CBs to counter 4 wide set.
Next, they use 3-2-6 for third down alignment. They use Strong safety to bring down to the box to spy or blitz. They would use Mike and Jack LBs on line of scrimmage to confuse QBs and OL in calling wrong protection.

How do we counter 4-1-6 and 3-2-6 defense?

Easy. With eight defensive players lining up near the line of scrimmage and only three in the secondary, it leaves areas open for receivers to catch passes. Tua would have to make quick throws and get ball in the exploited area. Think Dan Marino's game against Bears in 1985 season. Find the hole in Clemson's 4-1-6 and 3-2-6 defense and get the ball in the spot quick. We've seen few wrinkles in the offense in last two weeks. I wouldn't be shocked if we expanded on that down the road. We can take advantage of their aggressive blitizes by running outside runs, quick screen passes, WR motion. We have to come up with something that forces Clemson to show their hand on defense.

We have the personnel to expose their defense.

Not only that - we had them in the NC game. We once again under Loxley refused to abandon what had worked for something taking advantage of what they were giving us...

92tide · Sep 17, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Not only that - we had them in the NC game. We once again under Loxley refused to abandon what had worked for something taking advantage of what they were giving us...

that was one of the things that confounded me to no end throughout that game.

TitleWave · Sep 17, 2019

Was ol' Joe Lee going, er, point-counterpoint vs. 'Bama going fast or to match up with Saban's scrapping of his own hosiery?

92tide said:
correct. did y'all also talk about him not wearing socks?

BamaDMD · Sep 17, 2019

First: This is an awesome thread. I am learning so much. Thank you guys for breaking this down and discussing it.

Second: I have thought that Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) was not a very good QB and looked very substandard in the Clemson game. Was it this defense giving him a lot of trouble making him look like a poor QB?

Saban4Ever · Sep 17, 2019

BamaDMD said:
First: This is an awesome thread. I am learning so much. Thank you guys for breaking this down and discussing it.

Second: I have thought that Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) was not a very good QB and looked very substandard in the Clemson game. Was it this defense giving him a lot of trouble making him look like a poor QB?

Mond is good one game, average the next. I am sure Clemson's D confused him, especially the game being a home game for Clemson.

I hope Mond has a great game vs Auburn Saturday and has a bad game vs BAMA Oct 12. He is a run threat also, so I hope BAMA will be ready on defense for that game !

USCBAMA · Sep 17, 2019

Saban4Ever said:
Mond is good one game, average the next. I am sure Clemson's D confused him, especially the game being a home game for Clemson.

I hope Mond has a great game vs Auburn Saturday and has a bad game vs BAMA Oct 12. He is a run threat also, so I hope BAMA will be ready on defense for that game !

Early on Clemson seemed intent on not letting Mond beat them, but after 2 drives it became quite obvious that Mond couldn't hit the ground if he tried which allowed Clemson to focus on stuffing the run. For Venables, Mond being off that game was like a kid in a candy store, that game was over.

mlh · Sep 17, 2019

USCBAMA said:
Early on Clemson seemed intent on not letting Mond beat them, but after 2 drives it became quite obvious that Mond couldn't hit the ground if he tried which allowed Clemson to focus on stuffing the run. For Venables, Mond being off that game was like a kid in a candy store, that game was over.

Or, as Kenny Stabler said about Andrew Zow after one particularly poor game: "He couldn't hit the lake from a boat today."

CoolBreeze · Sep 17, 2019

bigjue24 said:
I hope you meant that to be in blue font. We are fans and speculate and discuss any game and other teams. I find what they did on defense interesting. They almost went positionless with the back 8 like you see teams doing in the NBA with versatile players running all over the court on offense and defense.

No, no blue font. Look, I know this is a football discussion board and this has turned out to be a pretty good thread. But ever since last years loss it seems like there are many posters way too obsessed with Dabo and Clempson. We did not get “out schemed” in the Championship game. We got out played and out coached. Coach has said many times that any given team can get emotionally fired up for 3 to 4 games a year. That is perfect for the ACC schedule which is why Freeshoes had such a long run. Heck, even Georgia may fall in to that category. But we must get up for at least 5 usually 6 games a year in the SEC West. So, we could very well get out played if we make it that far without running out of gas. But the scheme…no, not worried about a scheme. Coaching and in game adjustments is a concern but not a scheme. And the teams playing in January will not be the same ones playing this weekend which is why my focus is on Southern Miss. Gotta get better one game at a time.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 17, 2019

CoolBreeze said:
No, no blue font. Look, I know this is a football discussion board and this has turned out to be a pretty good thread. But ever since last years loss it seems like there are many posters way too obsessed with Dabo and Clempson. We did not get “out schemed” in the Championship game. We got out played and out coached. Coach has said many times that any given team can get emotionally fired up for 3 to 4 games a year. That is perfect for the ACC schedule which is why Freeshoes had such a long run. Heck, even Georgia may fall in to that category. But we must get up for at least 5 usually 6 games a year in the SEC West. So, we could very well get out played if we make it that far without running out of gas. But the scheme…no, not worried about a scheme. Coaching and in game adjustments is a concern but not a scheme. And the teams playing in January will not be the same ones playing this weekend which is why my focus is on Southern Miss. Gotta get better one game at a time.

I differ somewhat. I think we also got outschemed. I don't think their defensive method would work against the offense presently being run. This year, their offense doesn't appear to be on the same level...

gtgilbert · Sep 17, 2019

The good news is that we've been running a version of this as one of our dime packages for the last 2-3 seasons so it's not like we haven't seen some of it, even if they do a few different things than we do. We've even had specialty rush packages that were really 1-4-6 ( 1DL, 2 OLB, 2ILB +6) and 2-3-6 (2DL, a random mix of 3 LBs sometimes 2ILB and sometimes 2OLBs, +6). We didn't run it as often in 2018 as the seasons before because our in the box safety play wasn't quite as good as when we had harrison and minkah back there. With McKinney I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these a bit more even though we would likely have to run some variation with only one ILB due to the depth issue...

bamaga · Sep 17, 2019

I’m late to this thread, but the 3-2-6 has been around a long time, John Chavis has been running it against spread teams for years, and Missouri used it a lot in the pass happy Big 12, probably where Venables learned it. It’s not new , nor innovative. But Venables is a good coach and teaches it well. I remember Bama using it at least the last 5-6 years. Problem lately is the lack of quality DBs on the team, still , Nick runs a dime package 20-25% of plays. it is a lot easier when you have versatile DBs , or good cover LBs , like in the days of Minkah Fitzpatrick. I can see Jordan Battle playing a similar role in the next few years.

bamaga · Sep 17, 2019

To answer your question, since the 3-2-6 was designed for spread offenses, the obvious answer is a more conventional offense.

bigjue24 · Sep 17, 2019

CoolBreeze said:
No, no blue font. Look, I know this is a football discussion board and this has turned out to be a pretty good thread. But ever since last years loss it seems like there are many posters way too obsessed with Dabo and Clempson. We did not get “out schemed” in the Championship game. We got out played and out coached. Coach has said many times that any given team can get emotionally fired up for 3 to 4 games a year. That is perfect for the ACC schedule which is why Freeshoes had such a long run. Heck, even Georgia may fall in to that category. But we must get up for at least 5 usually 6 games a year in the SEC West. So, we could very well get out played if we make it that far without running out of gas. But the scheme…no, not worried about a scheme. Coaching and in game adjustments is a concern but not a scheme. And the teams playing in January will not be the same ones playing this weekend which is why my focus is on Southern Miss. Gotta get better one game at a time.

Getting out coached is the same thing as getting out schemed. Who develops the scheme? The coaches develop the scheme and then the other team has to adjust to exploit what they are doing, and Bama didn’t do that well last year against Clemson. Also as you can tell many people are interested in the x’s and o’s of football. What I saw Clemson doing is interesting. It’s fun to discuss. We all discussed things the barn does with the ole high school coach, air raid teams, LSU’s old school power running. The team needs to focus on southern miss I don’t. I can watch lots of games and talk about what I’m seeing and so can you. You and I aren’t part of the process. We just watch.

teamplayer · Sep 17, 2019

MOAN said:
First off I am not a defensive guru as many of you are when it comes to such defenses. That being said my observation of Clemson so far this season is Georgia Tech and Syracuse. Enough said about those two teams. Texas A&M from what little I watched of the first half had some big play opportunities that Mond overthrew. Probably at least a couple scores squandered in the short time I watched. Mond looked nervous, and I didn't watch enough after that to see how he played after that.

Bama marched the ball up and down the field on Clemson in the championship game, but when Bama got in the red zone that defensive line which did not need blitzes from the backers, to put enough pressure on Tua and the running game to stymie the offense once the field was shortened. Giving up a pick six and another interception which was un-Tua like hurt Bama, not to mention Clemson's offense had one of those games they couldn't do any wrong.

Bama needed more big long plays for scores instead of drives into the red zone in the championship game and if Clemson has to settle for gambling, blitzing to put pressure on Tua those big plays should be there for the taking with Bama's offense. All depends on execution of course but who would you rather have than Tua and our receivers to make them happen? Tua has already got like 12 td's to 0 interceptions while Trevor Lawrence already has 5 int's, one more than he had all of last season! Sophomore slump? Probably not but folks are figuring him out after his first season I think.

Hopefully Bama can make it back to play Clemson in the championship game this season. Don't think we will see the same results from last season if we do, at least from the offense! Likely to see another shootout unless the defense can stiffen up between now and then. Long way to go!

I think getting to face Clemson will be a bigger challenge than playing Clemson this year. We have several very tough and athletic teams who are highly motivated to take us down. It is difficult to continue to beat SEC teams like we have the last several years. Those teams start to get very desperate for victory. Desperate teams are dangerous. I think we will see some real battles this year.

T Bone · Sep 17, 2019

we gotta get to the dance first..........lets see if we get invited..............i like our chances as always.........roll tide!

USCBAMA · Sep 18, 2019

bamaga said:
I’m late to this thread, but the 3-2-6 has been around a long time, John Chavis has been running it against spread teams for years, and Missouri used it a lot in the pass happy Big 12, probably where Venables learned it. It’s not new , nor innovative. But Venables is a good coach and teaches it well. I remember Bama using it at least the last 5-6 years. Problem lately is the lack of quality DBs on the team, still , Nick runs a dime package 20-25% of plays. it is a lot easier when you have versatile DBs , or good cover LBs , like in the days of Minkah Fitzpatrick. I can see Jordan Battle playing a similar role in the next few years.

I think the new part is that Venables seems to be using it as his primary formation/scheme this year, something he's not done before at Clemson. He's used it there, just not as his base D (at least not that I've seen).

The 3-2-6, 3-3-5, & 4-2-5 are all defenses that can be used to combat spread offenses. Ellis Johnson used 4-2-5 to stop spread offenses with great effectiveness at South Carolina, often lining four Defensive Ends on the DL then two hybrid Safeties/LBs at the two LB spots. It worked really well, but LSU was able to line up and cram the ball down their throats in 2012, rushing for 258 yds. These defenses combat spread & wide open type offenses, and they address personnel strengths & weaknesses. I'm guessing Clemson is using more 3-2-6 than normal for a both reasons.

Question: How should a team handle Clemson's 3-2-6 defense

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