This will cost the readership, but glad they came out with it.
Politics: The Trump Impeachment Thread
- Thread starter NationalTitles18
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Chanson
The us gvt already proved bad faith in the russia investigation, even the fisa court has stated such. Trump has reason to question fbi fairness, because they demonstrated unfairness to him. Normally if fbi suspects foreign intrusion into a us political campaign they let them know, e.g. Diane Feinstein. But trump, no they use it as an insurance policy to keep him out, or get him out, and try to get more by not being straight with FISA.
Who are you quoting? Why would trump need to ask anyone to investigate manafort, his investigation was substantial and did not involve the trump campaign. Regardless Manafort was a scum ball, so I don't care about him. So yes, Manifort corruption is an issue.
Bamaro
No corruption, really, his son just happens to get multi-million dollar gigs in companies heavily involved with govt activities in the two countries Biden was a lead contact. Yea, right.. Your best argument would be yea but everybody does it.
81usaf92,
So because Biden runs for political office for the umpteenth time, he should be untouchable. But a big point he didn't use it did he, others interpret it that way, but trump gave them the military aid that did not happen under previous administrations.
Generally,
I do think trump is a bit to blame for this vitriol, his demeanor is why he was the 2nd to last republican I wanted. I was pretty adamant with friends that you can't elect a narcissist that flies around with his name plastered on everything. I had fears he would abuse powers at the sacrifice of my rights. Based on my initial beliefs and fbi actions, makes me think others in power felt the same way, but broke the faith and acted on feeling vs acting based on law and precedent.
But I don't think Trump is a true Narcissist, its is more his showmanship, trolling, and I think his background of born into power, he never had to be diplomatic to work his way up through management.
The us gvt already proved bad faith in the russia investigation, even the fisa court has stated such. Trump has reason to question fbi fairness, because they demonstrated unfairness to him. Normally if fbi suspects foreign intrusion into a us political campaign they let them know, e.g. Diane Feinstein. But trump, no they use it as an insurance policy to keep him out, or get him out, and try to get more by not being straight with FISA.
Who are you quoting? Why would trump need to ask anyone to investigate manafort, his investigation was substantial and did not involve the trump campaign. Regardless Manafort was a scum ball, so I don't care about him. So yes, Manifort corruption is an issue.
Bamaro
No corruption, really, his son just happens to get multi-million dollar gigs in companies heavily involved with govt activities in the two countries Biden was a lead contact. Yea, right.. Your best argument would be yea but everybody does it.
81usaf92,
So because Biden runs for political office for the umpteenth time, he should be untouchable. But a big point he didn't use it did he, others interpret it that way, but trump gave them the military aid that did not happen under previous administrations.
Generally,
I do think trump is a bit to blame for this vitriol, his demeanor is why he was the 2nd to last republican I wanted. I was pretty adamant with friends that you can't elect a narcissist that flies around with his name plastered on everything. I had fears he would abuse powers at the sacrifice of my rights. Based on my initial beliefs and fbi actions, makes me think others in power felt the same way, but broke the faith and acted on feeling vs acting based on law and precedent.
But I don't think Trump is a true Narcissist, its is more his showmanship, trolling, and I think his background of born into power, he never had to be diplomatic to work his way up through management.
What do you mean, generally his kids seem like good people. Heck in my mind early on his kids made me think Trump cant be such a bad guy with kids like this. Hunter Biden on the other hand was a complete mess......
When did Biden become president?! Did I go to sleep for a year again?!
So if the Kentucky Democratic Governor finds out that a Republican leaning mayor in the state has dirt on Mitch McConnell taking money from a source that if revealed would seriously damage Mitch's chances for reelection, and said governor uses his constitutional right to impound state funds from that mayors county until that information is distributed... Would you think the bigger issue would be Mitch McConnell taking bribes?
The official report on the FISA warrants didn’t come out until December 9, 2019. You are attempting to say that DJT knew that he would never get a fair investigation by the FBI into the corruption of one single US citizen so it was ok to ask a foreign country to do that investigation.
Further, you are essentially saying that someone who Trump once thought enough of to have as his campaign manager, was being treated fairly by the FBI, or at least we’ll enough that he didn’t ask a foreign country to double check their work.
Look, I don’t care about Manafort nor Biden in the least. However, if both are scumbags, both should be treated consistently by the President and investigated by US authorities. However, it is nof the Presidents purview to direct the DOJ in its investigations, furthermore the president has not been consistent. One remedy was ok enough for his former campaign manager, while the other remedy included requesting investigations by foreign powers into the son of a political rival.
Whether or not you think the FBI cannot be trusted to investigate corruption, it is never acceptable for the president to ask for foreign assistance into an investigation of a US citizen.
I seem to recall he was the VP and focused a lot on Ukraine and China. So that does not matter?
Ahh, the meme, I will try to talk like a meme. In response to concern of Trumps kids.
Hunter Biden a wreck. Trump kids have a good head on shoulders.
Answers buried within quotes above.
-- Internal corruption within any foreign government is a president's concern, especially when aid is discussed. Based on Trump's experiences over the past few years such as being falsely accused, fbi doing unprecedented and improper actions to try to nail him, while glossing over potential corruption of his adversaries. There is an argument for him to make sure the corruption was handled on the Ukraine side.
The really bad thing is the FBI did give the president multiple reasons not to trust them.
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1. No one is arguing that foreign corruption is not the president's concern.
2. In fact, Biden's activities in Ukraine were at Obama's behest, and everyone knew about them.
3. The Ukranian AG (?) was not doing much to investigate corruption; in particular, he was refusing to investigate Burisma, the company that Hunter Biden would LATER work for.
4. Biden pressured the Ukraine president to fire the AG and replace him with someone who would investigate corruption.
5. As Biden has noted, the AG was, in fact, fired.
That is an example of the US pressuring another country in support of US foreign interests.
1. Trump and Guiliani created a shadow organization wrt Ukranian activities.
2. Veteran diplomats were forced out of their jobs through a campaign of lies.
now here's where things get interesting.
3. Trump suspends foreign aid to the Ukraine.
4. Has a call with the Ukrainian president, in which he links the restoration of the aid to the Ukranian president ANNOUNCING an investigation into Biden. Not actually investigating--just announcing the investigation.
5. The moment the details of the call were discovered, Trump released the aid. Why would he do that, if he were legitimately pursuing US interests?
This is not action in pursuit of US foreign interests; it is using US aid to coerce an ally into generating bad press for a political opponent.
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No idea what you are talking about or the history if you are trying to make apples to apples comparison. But that is a short snippet when trying to align with the Trump situation.
If Mitch is taking bribes that should be investigated regardless of history. Has that happened and did the investigators cover up mitches issues while going outside of procedures in an attempt to prosecute the democratic governor over dirt bought and paid for by the republican party? Not sure in your scenario why the mayor would not be subpoenaed, its not like a foreign govt that can't be subpoenaed. But please, don't back me in a corner where I feel like I need to defend Mitch...
Also, Trump didn't actually withhold anything. First prez to send weapons to Ukraine.
Spoken like someone that only gets one side of the story from Safe Space News Sources.
Its pretty simple... Do you believe the more concerning issue is an elected official taking bribes or the fact that a person in executive power withholding aid to obtain damaging information to use against a political rival. I know squirrels are distracting but please try to follow along.
Try not to overthink it just because you cant effectively defend the POTUS
Yeah because he got the Ukrainian president to agree to investigate his chief political rival. I guess to you "Why" and "How" arent important.
He withheld $400 million in aid that had been authorized by Congress (Trump does not deny this point, btw.). The fact that he later released the funds after getting caught does not alter the fact that the funds were withheld in the first place.
Now you are talking semantics. He did delay, through the use of political appointments to the OMB.
I will refer you to the Impoundment Control Act of 1974.
There is a legal mechanism specifically established for the President to ask Congress to withhold funding due to his fears of corruption. If he uses any other means to delay funding, that has been appropriated by congress, he is doing so in an illegal manner.Impoundment Control Act of 1974 synopsis at above link said:
July 3rd to Sept 11th 2019. Everyone likes to be pedantic regarding the fact that the aid was eventually released. However fundamental to the argument is that it was not in the Presidents purview to actually decide whether or not the aid should be released. If he had concerns, he had a mechanism to address those concerns. He did not use that mechanism, and told one of his political appointees to change when congressionally appropriated funding would be delivered to Ukraine.
I must be missing something, but according to the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, the President is not allowed to make funding decisions regarding when, how, or why aid is disbursed unless he goes through the legal process.
Unless you are wanting to debate whether delaying something constitutes as a funding decision, I am not sure how we are still arguing. He did not use the illegal mechanism available to him to investigate corruption, simple as that.
Edit: Darn you @jthomas666 for being faster and more succinct.
Personal attacks, I am so surprised. I saw the squirrel meme too, could you at least be original,, meh,, never mind, asking too much...
But in a complete vacuum of all other information or current events so I am not distracted,,, the bribe is more concerning. Then again, the details you provided regarding executive power very limited, while bribery is a crime.
you mean the people that have been banned from running charities and required to take mandatory training because they stole money from veterans and a childrens cancer charity?
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